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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 11, 2013 0:08:18 GMT -5
www.hardcoregaming101.net/gunfrontier/gunfrontier.htmThis article isn't QUITE ready for posting, but I wanted to put it up for discussion anyway. I'd had this game on those Taito collections forever and never put any time into it. But I got myself a tate-ing TVs and ended up grabbing the Saturn version of this game, since the PS2 ports lacked tate mode. I knew it was the inspiration for Battle Garegga and many other Shinobu Yagawa games, so I thought it'd be interesting to trace back that heritage. Doing a bit of research, it seems quite a few people on the Shmups forum loathe this game, but I think it's just because it's being taken out of context. It's a MUCH slower, simpler game than Raizing/Cave's game, despite setting its roots, so it needs to be considered in that context. The end battle is pretty infuriating, though, I think I've beaten it only out of luck. The other bit of trivia I dug up, I haven't read anywhere else on the internet, as it was translated from the Japanese Wikipedia. The introduction to Metal Black calls the game "Project Gun Frontier 2", but other than sharing some of the staff, the games couldn't be any more different. I think most people just shrug their shoulders at the relationship, but there's a reason! When pitching the game to management, the staff members of Metal Black were worried that their post-apocalyptic concept may have been too grim, so they whipped together a "dummy story" to give to the higher ups, with the intention of changing it later. That dummy story ended up going public in magazine previews and ended up in the Saturn version manual. (Even then, the only real connection with Gun Frontier is sharing the same antagonists, the Wild Lizards gang.) The real story is found in other material and has no relation to Gun Frontier. At least, I hope I translated that right!
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Post by Allie on Nov 11, 2013 10:52:07 GMT -5
I think you've pretty much covered everything I could possibly have said in your paragraphs right there.
I'm one of the few people who doesn't hate this game (though I've never put the time into it to get anywhere in it, only having cleared the first stage once).
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BdR
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by BdR on Nov 15, 2013 11:20:45 GMT -5
What is "tate mode"? I assume it is where you rotate the tv screen on its side, so it's like in "portrait" mode? I think this could be is unclear for some people (at least for me). You could give a quick explanation of "tate mode" in the article.
Also, there are only arcade screenshots, no Saturn or PS2 comparison screenshots?
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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 15, 2013 14:52:39 GMT -5
You are correct, it's one of those shoot-em-up vernacular terms that's usually assumed to be known to the reader, though it can always be clarified.
I can snap some screens of the Saturn/PS2 versions but there's not much different to see honestly - the tate mode is identical to what MAME would output, it'd really only be to see how the horizontal display would look. The PS2 version may as well be running on a custom MAME, just without tate ability either. I don't THINK they're filtered (though they are interlaced) but it would be good to double check.
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Post by Allie on Nov 15, 2013 18:34:32 GMT -5
May as well be? I thought that Taito Legends 2 basically _IS_ MAME. MAME Devs are credited in the manual, anyway.
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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 15, 2013 21:56:53 GMT -5
If that's the case, then yeah, that makes sense.
Except for a handful of games which were actual ports (Raystorm and G-Darius).
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Post by starscream on Nov 16, 2013 9:51:58 GMT -5
It's probably heavily modified MAME, the PS2 struggles even with early ports. And yet they didn't even bother to implement 240p.
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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 16, 2013 14:15:20 GMT -5
Very very few PS2 games implement 240p. What is there, the Sega Ages PS2 games? Dodonpachi Daioujou and Espgaluda? I can't think of too many more. I've been under the impression it's because some newer TVs don't support it. I know my HDTV doesn't, which is why I keep CRTs around.
Lack of progressive scan in general in more irksome to me personally.
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Post by starscream on Nov 16, 2013 17:52:27 GMT -5
The Sega Genesis Collection supports it, and some SNK compilations. Why not all of them is beyond me. Even some PS2 games that originated on the platform itself, I vaguely recall reading that Ridge Racer V does, and I remember taking some screenshots of Nippon Ichi SRPGs where emulator output was only 640x224.
Edit: Actually, scratch Ridge Racer. However, the Nippon Ichi games do, as does Ico. Apparently, it's also possible to force some games/compilations relatively easy to 240p with software or hex editing rather than hardware.
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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 16, 2013 21:57:55 GMT -5
I don't think the Sega Genesis Collection and Neo Geo Collections do (though some of them support 480p...I know the Capcom Collections do, but even then it's inconsistent). I'm not sure if 640x224 is displayed progressively though - I remember hooking up my PS2 to my video capture card and there was noticeable interlacing. Ico is definitely 240p though. The PS2 is a nightmare when it comes to this kind of thing, maybe that's why most programmers didn't bother with it, for something that only a small percentage of the gaming population would even notice. Or, if it's easy enough to just hex edit it, it's probably just them figuring no one would care. Here's a random GameFAQs thread that talks about the Nippon Ichi games. I guess the only way to make sure would be to hook my PS2 up and look for scanlines. www.gamefaqs.com/boards/589678-disgaea-hour-of-darkness/42063342
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Post by starscream on Nov 17, 2013 9:43:58 GMT -5
It was already rare on the Dreamcast, and probably not encouraged and well documented by Sony. I've also been following the DC/PS2/GC/Wii homebrew scenes to some extent, and getting non-interlace modes out of the consoles wasn't something that developers understood and could implement in an instant. On the Wii, emulators that used SDL couldn't output low-res modes at all, because the port didn't support it.
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Post by splatter on Dec 3, 2013 17:20:54 GMT -5
I notice that the Japanese Wikipedia article says Toshiaki Fujino, the Triangle Service guy, worked on the Saturn port of Gun Frontier and was responsible for the changes made to that version. The citation's a booklet from one of the Shooting Love compilations.
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CRV
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by CRV on Dec 3, 2013 21:11:36 GMT -5
I notice that the Japanese Wikipedia article says Toshiaki Fujino, the Triangle Service guy, worked on the Saturn port of Gun Frontier and was responsible for the changes made to that version. The citation's a booklet from one of the Shooting Love compilations. Credits can be seen here.
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Post by Discoalucard on Dec 3, 2013 21:24:10 GMT -5
I notice that the Japanese Wikipedia article says Toshiaki Fujino, the Triangle Service guy, worked on the Saturn port of Gun Frontier and was responsible for the changes made to that version. The citation's a booklet from one of the Shooting Love compilations. Yeah, I saw that too. I wonder what "Goo" actually was, a porting house?
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