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Post by zerker on Apr 17, 2014 15:55:22 GMT -5
At the end of the day, if the image scaling bugs you (it bugged me!) you'll probably just want one 3DS-series system (3DS, 3DS XL or 2DS) and one DS-series system (DS, DS Lite, DSi, DSi XL).
My personal history with DS has been: Original Model DS. Screen started screwing up -> Upgrade to DS Lite DS Lite top screen starting glitching, eventually bought a 3DS 3DS screen scaling on DS games drove me cracy -> bought a DSi
Now I'm happy. The larger systems don't really appeal to me, but as with the scaling issue, that is also a personal preference.
I'd recommend looking at the 3DS and 3DS XL. You'll probably want to be able to play 3DS games. If the scaling situation bothers you, then consider investing in a replacement DS-series system as well.
If you have any brick-and-mortar game stores near you (especially ones that take used handhelds or specialize in retro games), you should be able to find existing units to try out.
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Post by zellsf on Apr 17, 2014 15:58:15 GMT -5
There's more differences to it than screens which is all we've talked about yet.
There is one more screen difference that's pretty important actually. Larger screens = larger inputs. It's a touchscreen after all.
Also the size difference results in some pretty notable ergonomic differences and a noticeably longer battery life (for the XL variants).
And later models (DSi / DSi XL) do not play GBA games if that's important to you. If it isn't, I recommend you go with the DSi over the DS Lite if you decide against the XL.
I've heard people say XL screens are warmer (color temperature) than non-XL ones, no clue if that's accurate, but it's something that varies unit by unit anyway.
Edit: Just to post my personal opinion: Get a 3DS XL now and a DSi XL later. The scaling sucks, but so does going for a long while without being able to play 3DS games at all.
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Post by Scylla on Apr 17, 2014 18:02:35 GMT -5
One of the most frequent sources of misinformation I see is people believing their personal perceptions are universal. You think it looks blurry, how is that not misinformation to a person who perceives no blur at all? Or doesn't define what you perceive as blur? Technical details on the other hand can tell you exactly what you'll get if you understand them. They're also very easy to understand in this case, if OP has any questions I'll try to explain. Short of someone having vision problems, we're all seeing pretty much the same thing. But yeah, people can argue over semantics as far as what counts as "blur" or "pixelated" or what have you, and different people have different tolerance levels. Like how some people can barely stand to play N64 and PS1 games because they find them unbearably muddy/blurry/blocky/whatever, while I can still enjoy the graphics in many games on those platforms. But if we're going to talk about personal perceptions being passed off as universal fact, then your statements of "no blurriness" and the like are just as guilty because that certainly isn't the case to me. In fact, I've phrased more things like "this is what I prefer/this is how it looks to me" than your statements that have been presented as if they're inarguable. And technical details don't tell nearly as much as firsthand experience. In lieu of getting that experience yourself, it never hurts to ask about the experiences and opinions of others, and people saying "yeah, this looks more pixelated and blurry to me" is not remotely spreading misinformation. Any savvy gatherer of information will take all facts and opinions into consideration. I mean, no game is factually good or bad, but if most people feel it's bad, I'll definitely take that as a warning. Or if I'm talking to other people who get motion sickness from games and they tell me one game gave them bad motion sickness, I'm going to pay heed, and if some guy pops in like "This game didn't give me motion sickness nor a bunch of other people, therefore it doesn't cause motion sickness", I'm not going to suddenly disregard everyone who did have issues.
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Post by zellsf on Apr 17, 2014 19:06:49 GMT -5
But if we're going to talk about personal perceptions being passed off as universal fact, then your statements of "no blurriness" and the like are just as guilty because that certainly isn't the case to me. In fact, I've phrased more things like "this is what I prefer/this is how it looks to me" than your statements that have been presented as if they're inarguable. I was saying there was no more blurriness than there was before. The image is the same. The blurriness is your perception of it on a larger screen. You can actually think, experiment and figure out how it looks by knowing the technical data. You can know for sure how it looks. Or you can ask 10 people who might all be wrong. You can't separate who is right or wrong, it's all noise. Edit: since I'm bored: OP: this is the sort of difference you'll be looking at (though the size difference won't be that extreme). If the right image makes you want to tear your eyes out, don't get a XL. Personally I find it easier to see the details in the larger image. Might try to think of a more accurate comparison later. Edit: make sure image zooming is off in your browser.
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Post by Super Orbus on Apr 17, 2014 19:20:14 GMT -5
I know I was pretty worried about how DS games would look when I got my 3DS XL. And yeah, it is not razor sharp. But I find it perfectly acceptable. Especially if I'm not playing with my nose glued to the screen. And after all, I got the XL so I wouldn't have to.
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Post by GamerL on Apr 17, 2014 19:59:34 GMT -5
But if we're going to talk about personal perceptions being passed off as universal fact, then your statements of "no blurriness" and the like are just as guilty because that certainly isn't the case to me. In fact, I've phrased more things like "this is what I prefer/this is how it looks to me" than your statements that have been presented as if they're inarguable. I was saying there was no more blurriness than there was before. The image is the same. The blurriness is your perception of it on a larger screen. You can actually think, experiment and figure out how it looks by knowing the technical data. You can know for sure how it looks. Or you can ask 10 people who might all be wrong. You can't separate who is right or wrong, it's all noise. Edit: since I'm bored: OP: this is the sort of difference you'll be looking at (though the size difference won't be that extreme). If the right image makes you want to tear your eyes out, don't get a XL. Personally I find it easier to see the details in the larger image. Might try to think of a more accurate comparison later. Edit: make sure image zooming is off in your browser. well, judging by those images it seems I would prefer the smaller screens
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Post by zellsf on Apr 17, 2014 20:18:14 GMT -5
Well as I said the biggest problem with that example is that the screen size difference is not that extreme.
That's a 200% resize
The DSi XL is 4.2-inch The DSi is 3.25-inch The DS (and Lite) is 3.0-inch
Obviously, DS to DSi XL isn't even 150%, but the example was for you to see what difference size would make. Try to imagine the step between those two images. Even if the screen size difference is far from that severe, I think it's still a accurate comparison. And if that comparison makes you want to get a non-XL unit then go for it, you obviously prefer pixel density over screen size.
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Post by jorpho on Apr 18, 2014 0:20:07 GMT -5
Are you sure the backlight isn't simply switched off? I'm pretty sure that's not the problem, perhaps lack of use is what caused it? I know there was about a two year period (2007/2008) where I never used it at all and then when I last played it in 2009 I remember the screen looking worse than I remembered and that was already 5 years ago, so you can imagine what it looks like now Except modern LCDs just don't suddenly stop working with disuse – or at least I haven't heard anything of the sort. (Well, there's the Mattel Microvision, but that's ancient tech.) This rather alarms me.
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Post by GamerL on Apr 18, 2014 2:24:04 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's not the problem, perhaps lack of use is what caused it? I know there was about a two year period (2007/2008) where I never used it at all and then when I last played it in 2009 I remember the screen looking worse than I remembered and that was already 5 years ago, so you can imagine what it looks like now Except modern LCDs just don't suddenly stop working with disuse – or at least I haven't heard anything of the sort. (Well, there's the Mattel Microvision, but that's ancient tech.) This rather alarms me. it could be something about the original model DS itself, not LCD screen technology in general
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Post by Super Orbus on Apr 18, 2014 10:00:15 GMT -5
It sounds like it's the backlight, not the screen. I have no idea what the original DS uses for a backlight though.
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Post by zellsf on Apr 18, 2014 11:31:15 GMT -5
It doesn't, the original DS is front lit.
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Post by zerker on Apr 18, 2014 11:42:35 GMT -5
There seems to be a lot of misinformation on that topic. All official specs say it is backlit. However, the light is pretty crappy compared to the backlit SP, or the DS Lite.
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Post by zellsf on Apr 18, 2014 12:34:11 GMT -5
Huh looking some you're right. There is something weird. I think it's backlit now, but I'm very conflicted. Is it really possible to create a so shitty backlit screen that it looks like a frontlit one?
Well, for Nintendo it probably is.
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Post by zerker on Apr 18, 2014 12:48:44 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm not particularly fond of the original model DS. To hopefully help clarify the entire screen resolution discussion, I dug out the Tripod, set up my 3DS and DSi on a box underneath the camera and took some pictures. For reference, I used Dragon Quest 6 in both scaled and 1:1 mode, then running under the DSi. I also included Fire Emblem Awakening (being a native 3DS game) for comparison. The thing with the DS Dragon Quest games is they have very specific pixel fonts that look just slightly wrong when scaled by the 3DS scaling algorithm. The camera doesn't do a perfect job picking this up, but it should generally give you an idea of the differences. The pictures also reminded me that the DSi screen is slightly larger than the 3DS screen (at least when used as with a 4:3 aspect ratio)
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Post by Scylla on Apr 18, 2014 13:19:24 GMT -5
But if we're going to talk about personal perceptions being passed off as universal fact, then your statements of "no blurriness" and the like are just as guilty because that certainly isn't the case to me. In fact, I've phrased more things like "this is what I prefer/this is how it looks to me" than your statements that have been presented as if they're inarguable. I was saying there was no more blurriness than there was before. The image is the same. The blurriness is your perception of it on a larger screen. You can actually think, experiment and figure out how it looks by knowing the technical data. You can know for sure how it looks. Or you can ask 10 people who might all be wrong. You can't separate who is right or wrong, it's all noise. You're missing the point entirely. What *I* was saying is that it's the end-result appearance that matters, not the technical details. You can tell me all you want that the image, technically, is the same, and I will never disagree with that, but that will never change the fact that the APPEARANCE *is* blurrier and more pixelated, to me. It doesn't matter if it's an optical illusion or whatever, what you see is what you see. So if I had never played an XL and was looking for info and opinions on it and you told me "there is no more blurriness than before", I would feel completely misled upon playing it. And, uh, how do you "experiment" with hardware specs? They are what they are, and they're not going to tell you if you'll consider the appearance of games on the XL blurrier or more pixelated than a regular DS or not. Sure, if you know that the resolution is the same and the XL has bigger screens, you can make an assumption on how it may look compared to the regular DS, but you still won't know for sure until you see it with your own eyes. And it would also be rather presumptuous to assume that everyone has the knowledge that a bigger screen at the same resolution will make the games appear blurrier and more pixelated.
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