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Post by Discoalucard on Jul 15, 2014 9:08:36 GMT -5
I dug up my copy of Lunar Dragon Song for an upcoming kusoge column, but after subjecting myself to that disaster, I decided to load up some of the real Lunar games on my PSP. I haven't played either of the PS1 games since they came out, and the Sega CD original was one of my favorites during my formative years.
Even though I had played other RPGs at the time (Phantasy Star II, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, little bits of Final Fantasy II at a friend's house since I didn't own an SNES), Lunar was the first RPG I played where it felt that the story mattered. It's a standard coming-of-age fantasy, but the characters are so well written (ESPECIALLY compared to Final Fantasy II) that I ended up more emotionally invested it in than any other game I'd played.
I eagerly awaited the PS1 remake, which per typical Working Designs MO, seemed to be delayed forever, but I bought it and beat it. In general it's better than the Sega CD version, but the original soundtrack is better, and there are a few storyline things I prefer.
For Lunar 2, I initially missed out on the Sega CD version since it came out so late, and I had moved onto PC gaming. A few years down the road I bought it from someone online, got 20 hours into it, then my Sega CD backup RAM was erased, so I just decided to wait for the inevitable remake. That didn't come until 2000, during a holiday season with a number of fantasy RPGs (Grandia 2, Skies of Arcadia, Final Fantasy IX). For this, I think I prefer the remake. There's not many changes to the plot, and the small dungeons are actually preferable, considering how huge and difficult the Sega CD version was, especially with the random battles.
I've had Magical School Lunar sitting on my shelf for years, which was a Game Gear/Saturn spinoff with a young girl cast. Victor Ireland described it as "pre-moe" and didn't localize it because he didn't like it.
Anyway, Lunar is one of those series whose luster may have worn off with the ages - its strength was its writing, and that's generally gotten better in the realm of video gaming, but there's still a certain warmth to the games that's missing in a lot of RPGs, even if they're still fairly basic from a gameplay standpoint.
I loaded both PS1 games on my PSP, though your system needs to be hacked to do so since neither are on the PSN store. I had also bought the PSP conversion of the first Lunar awhile back and finally broke it out. It's a bad port - all of the dungeons are redesigned to be much smaller, but to make up for their size the battles take forever. Attacks animations are too long, enemies have too much HP, it's just a major drag. The iOS version is a port of the PS1 version, and is definitely preferable for portable Lunar gaming if you don't have a modded PSP.
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Post by thoothan on Jul 15, 2014 9:16:11 GMT -5
Lunar Dragon Song was one of the first games I bought when I got a ds, and probably the first game where I was just like "damn this is really bad" it was the first game I got rid of it was just mindblowingly garbage
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Post by nightdreamer on Jul 15, 2014 9:41:34 GMT -5
Wow, I miss the 'golden years' of Lunar games. They really have fallen, haven't they?
I'm one of the few who preferred Eternal Blue over Silver Star Story, although I only played their PSX remakes and the Saturn original might've been different. SSS' combat, while fun, got stale pretty fast since IIRC you learn all the special moves around halfway into the game (while it takes longer in EB). I also found SSS a little too 'bubblegum pop' for my taste AT THAT TIME (I was a teen then who liked my story a little edgier?) and the music were too 'Disney Channel' for my taste; EB was generally a little darker, but it's also more affecting -- the scene with Mauri was one of the most moving scenes I've seen in a JRPG, and I could say the same about the ending, and Ghaleon.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Jul 15, 2014 9:45:08 GMT -5
I'll always have a place in my heart for those games. I kind of preferred the Sega CD originals, especially the first game - I didn't like how Alex lost his magic powers and became a clone of Hiro, and the enemy changes were unfortunate - the original had mostly different enemies, while the PS1 version had a lot of palette swaps and enemies recycled from Lunar 2.
I know it's "standard animu style" but I was always a fan of Kubooka's character designs as well (he did the designs for the Giant Robo OAV series).
BTW I'm sad because I saw a copy of the first artbook (which I have, but wouldn't mind another copy of) at Half Price Books about a month or so ago, but the pages were stuck together with dried cum.
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Post by nightdreamer on Jul 15, 2014 9:49:37 GMT -5
The perils of moe illustrations.
(moe wasn't a thing in the 90s, right? am I misremembering?)
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Post by Discoalucard on Jul 15, 2014 10:13:09 GMT -5
"Moe" has been a thing since like the 80s, it's just come to prominence more recently. I also found SSS a little too 'bubblegum pop' for my taste AT THAT TIME (I was a teen then who liked my story a little edgier?) and the music were too 'Disney Channel' for my taste; A lot of this has to do with the music changes, I think. The Sega CD opened up with a super cheesy but amazing 80s-style synth rock, but all of the other versions have that more lovey-dovey song "Tsubasa"/"Wings", which is good in its own right but sets the tone for something more, as you say, bubblegum pop. The Sega CD one has a darker color palette, and its soundtrack isn't quite as upbeat. The basic tone of the story is mostly identical between versions, but it does help give the earlier version a harsher edge. And man, Dragon Song is bad. When I looked at my old saved game when I bought it 8 years ago, I only got like 45 minutes into it before shelving it. I've been going back and reading reviews from the early, most of it were damning it with faint, mealy mouthed praise because they couldn't comprehend how bad it really was.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Jul 15, 2014 10:13:43 GMT -5
I actually really liked the first game, however I played the PSP version, which I remember being a mark of shame or some nonsense. The second one I played on PS1, and I should really get around to playing again. Maybe load it on my PSP. It felt like a long slow game back when I was working on a ton of those.
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Post by nightdreamer on Jul 15, 2014 11:03:19 GMT -5
A lot of this has to do with the music changes, I think. The Sega CD opened up with a super cheesy but amazing 80s-style synth rock Yeah, fighting through the darkness is an amazing opening song. I'll just go ahead and leave it hear, for benefit of humankind!
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Jul 15, 2014 11:46:07 GMT -5
"Moe" has been a thing since like the 80s, it's just come to prominence more recently. Have they called it "moe" since then? You definitely had "moe" products and shows and whatever, though.
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Post by Allie on Jul 15, 2014 12:00:22 GMT -5
I found the English version of the theme from the Sega CD version of the first game to be painful, painful, painful, even when I first played it back in the 90s.
It was like an escaped refugee from Bubblegum Crisis, only worse.
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Post by nightdreamer on Jul 15, 2014 12:03:00 GMT -5
"Moe" has been a thing since like the 80s, it's just come to prominence more recently. Have they called it "moe" since then? You definitely had "moe" products and shows and whatever, though. moseph moestar
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Post by Digitalnametag on Jul 15, 2014 12:16:31 GMT -5
Momo?
Dragon Song was one of the first (if not the first) Jrpg to be released for the DS over here. A lot of early console releases get free passes in reviews. If only we knew how truly terrible the game was. I was so excited for it at the time...
I'd love to get my hands on the Sega CD Lunar games someday. Especially to see the differences in Silver Star. Just need to pony up the cash for a working Sega CD. The PS1 release of Eternal Blue sounds like the definitive release though. Some of Working Designs changes to the CD version sound terrible.
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Post by Discoalucard on Jul 15, 2014 12:17:51 GMT -5
I actually really liked the first game, however I played the PSP version, which I remember being a mark of shame or some nonsense. The second one I played on PS1, and I should really get around to playing again. Maybe load it on my PSP. It felt like a long slow game back when I was working on a ton of those. The PSP game isn't a total travesty or anything, the story and such is still intact. Most of its issues stem from comparisons to earlier versions. Like, the problem with a lot of older RPGs is how slow they are, but Lunar was really fast paced, especially for a CD game. So whenever older games are re-released, they usually speed things up. Silver Star Harmony goes in the opposite direction by making everything really slow, which is partially due to technical issues (the backgrounds are solid bitmaps instead of tiles so they take up more memory) and partially due to the developers being incompetant. It's so cut back, and also easier, to the point where it's really really boring. It was like an escaped refugee from Bubblegum Crisis, only worse. As someone who regrets not backing that Kickstarter and is eagerly awaiting the Blu-Rays, for me that's a high compliment. I'd love to get my hands on the Sega CD Lunar games someday. Especially to see the differences in Silver Star. Just need to pony up the cash for a working Sega CD. The PS1 release of Eternal Blue sounds like the definitive release though. Some of Working Designs changes to the CD version sound terrible. Someone (not me) needs to go through and analyze all of Working Designs' balancing changes. I'll bet you money that at least 90% of them range from "bad" to "terrible". For a frame of reference, the North America Sega CD Lunar 2 required that you spend "magic experience points" every time you wanted to save your game, to prevent save scumming, I guess? But it was just really frustrating because that meant every time you saved, you need to grind back up those points if you wanted to upgrade your magic. The 32-bit versions removed the magic experience system totally and Working Designs didn't implement any other such nonsense, so that alone makes the PS1 version preferable.
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Post by silvastarripper on Jul 15, 2014 12:22:57 GMT -5
And man, Dragon Song is bad. When I looked at my old saved game when I bought it 8 years ago, I only got like 45 minutes into it before shelving it. I've been going back and reading reviews from the early, most of it were damning it with faint, mealy mouthed praise because they couldn't comprehend how bad it really was. I bought it used a while after it came out, cause I was excited to play another Lunar game after running through Silver Star and Eternal Blue a few years earlier. Wow, what a disappointment. I (somehow) slogged through the game, beat it around ~13 hours and if I remember correctly the ending is a total cop-out as well. I've enjoyed all the other games and have fond memories of playing them. Even Walking School.
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Post by voltagecontrol on Jul 15, 2014 14:44:04 GMT -5
In your dreams magical thoughts...
Not a fan of the dubbed music in the Lunar remakes.
Or the dated Pop Culture jokes.
Unless the original version has Japanese pop culture jokes and they localized it.
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