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Post by elektrolurch on Apr 13, 2016 5:00:25 GMT -5
Recently, games like Undertale, Pony Island ,Stanley Parable and such mess with the players' expectations of what games are and can be and thereby comment on the very nature of gaming itself. And even in bigger budget titles, commentary on the nature of gaming also appeared- think of Spec Ops The Line.
This makes me wonder- when did stuff like that first appear? Honestly, I can't think of any old game that makes this the whole point or the whole concept. And even little "meta" moments in older video games are rare, the only example that really comes to my mind that -kind of- messes with your mind to some degree is earthbound. Or some Sierra adventure games....
There must be more,right, I must be missing something?
Or is the deconstruction of the medium something that can only happen now, with tools readily aviable for a lot of people to make games, and digital distribution allowing more risky games to be sold?
I'm asking because in this messing with expectations I see real potential for the medium to develop as a conceptual art form.
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Post by GamerL on Apr 13, 2016 5:13:33 GMT -5
I think the first modern meta game would be Metal Gear Solid 2.
That's about as perfect an example that I can think of, that was the first game that really tried to upend player expectations in a major way (one that sadly also lost a lot of fans) and one that tried to make you think about the nature of video games themselves.
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Post by elektrolurch on Apr 13, 2016 5:15:46 GMT -5
I think the first modern meta game would be Metal Gear Solid 2. That's about as perfect an example that I can think of, that was the first game that really tried to upend player expectations in a major way (one that sadly also lost a lot of fans) and one that tried to make you think about the nature of video games themselves. Uh, good example I barely played, yes.Thanks, need to revisit it. That makes another one come up- what about Max Payne 1?Ok, it's not really the center of the narration, but it has some moments which make you go..."what?"... |
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Post by JDarkside on Apr 13, 2016 5:21:19 GMT -5
...uh, this has been a thing since writing became a major element of game design. The point and click comedy subgerne is an explosion of self-aware gags and moments.
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Post by elektrolurch on Apr 13, 2016 5:37:25 GMT -5
...uh, this has been a thing since writing became a major element of game design. The point and click comedy subgerne is an explosion of self-aware gags and moments. I feel the self aware gags in games like the original monkey island are just that-gags. They barely mess with your expectations, do they, or with what a game is or is not? The only kinda meta-gameplay from classic adventures I can remember is funnily from flight of the amazon queen. Like the puzzle with the ape. Or the room with million red herrings that do nothing. Ok some indiana jones adventures have some similar nods. But aigan, they are-nods. Gags. Sprinkes. Not the main part of the experience, and I feel they aren't really commentary, they are just played for laughs. |
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Post by GamerL on Apr 13, 2016 7:17:03 GMT -5
I think the first modern meta game would be Metal Gear Solid 2. That's about as perfect an example that I can think of, that was the first game that really tried to upend player expectations in a major way (one that sadly also lost a lot of fans) and one that tried to make you think about the nature of video games themselves. Uh, good example I barely played, yes.Thanks, need to revisit it. That makes another one come up- what about Max Payne 1?Ok, it's not really the center of the narration, but it has some moments which make you go..."what?"... I would recommend you still play it, but if you're curious I'm going to spoil one of the big twists so you can see where I'm coming from the events of the game turn out to be an intentional simulation of the events of the first Metal Gear Solid arranged by a secret society in order to see if it's possible for them to "create" another Solid Snake That's pretty meta if you ask me and I can't think of an earlier game that goes that deep into it. |
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Post by Discoalucard on Apr 13, 2016 8:36:15 GMT -5
Monkey Island did have that scene in the Governor's Mansion where the interface "took over". While all of the action takes place out of the camera's view, the command bar and inventory relates to you what's happening. It's "meta" in a certain sense, though it doesn't seem like that's what you're looking for.
The 1984 Infocom text adventure Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy had a text parser that would argue with and lie to you. This is the earliest example I can think of, though I can't think of any other games that did anything like it, at least of that era.
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Post by lurker on Apr 13, 2016 8:58:09 GMT -5
The more recent Bard's Tale had the hero (Cary Elwes) arguing with the narrator (Tony Jay).
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Post by derboo on Apr 13, 2016 9:11:58 GMT -5
Planetfall (1983) has some of that (the robot knows how often you save, only 15 years before Psycho Mantis), but The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxya lot more.
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Post by tokenflipguy on Apr 13, 2016 10:44:52 GMT -5
It went mainstream with MGS2.
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on Apr 13, 2016 11:15:20 GMT -5
The Prisoner from 1980 (based on a British TV show, kind of) gave you a secret code at the beginning of the game and if you revealed it, you lost. in one particularly meta example, it tried to make you input the code by using a fake error message.
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Post by Allie on Apr 13, 2016 12:47:30 GMT -5
Maybe it's stupid of me, but I've never been a fan of the concept of a developer/publisher wanting to have their cake and eat it too by getting their sale and money out of you, but then passing judgment on the player and calling them a bastard for playing that sort of game (Spec Ops : The Line; I think Haze did this too [though Haze was crap], MGS2 to an extent as well).
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on Apr 13, 2016 13:23:03 GMT -5
I agree to an extent, it was one of the things that annoyed me about Hotline Miami despite the fact that I enjoyed that game. I think the 'you're evil for playing this game' gimmick is tired in games which don't allow you not to be evil. on the other hand, I do enjoy the meta stuff in Metal Gear - it's all the crazy fourth-wall breaking and intertextuality without too much of 'HEY PLAYER FUK U'.
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Post by elektrolurch on Apr 13, 2016 13:40:28 GMT -5
Maybe it's stupid of me, but I've never been a fan of the concept of a developer/publisher wanting to have their cake and eat it too by getting their sale and money out of you, but then passing judgment on the player and calling them a bastard for playing that sort of game (Spec Ops : The Line; I think Haze did this too [though Haze was crap], MGS2 to an extent as well). .......I disagree here. The insulting of the audience is a huge tradition in theater for instance, and there are plays that are nothing but insulting the audience for coming and expecting something specific(think of publikumsbeschimpfung by peter handke). this idea of deconstruction should in my mind extent to games as well.. Otherwhise, lots of cool suggestions, but I'm starting to get the feeling that MSG2 was the first game that really did what I thought of as an integral point,focus and main part of the experience. |
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Post by Weasel on Apr 13, 2016 15:00:50 GMT -5
I've always preferred the more "harmless" kinds of meta...like the intentional "glitch" in Karateka for Apple II, where if you try to run the game from Side B of the double-sided diskette, the game would run as normal, except that it would appear upside-down on screen. This was apparently a prank suggested by Broderbund's tech support, as they got a kick out of the idea that confused customers would call the support line and be told that the game was literally upside-down, and to take the disk out and put it up the right way to fix it.
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