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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 20, 2017 20:50:43 GMT -5
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Post by drpepperfan on Feb 20, 2017 21:01:08 GMT -5
Wow, memories. This sure takes me back. AGS...what a time.
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Post by Gendo Ikari on Feb 21, 2017 6:26:35 GMT -5
Good article for a nostalgia trip! I was among the ones who followed the series from its humble origins to the conclusion. However, it skims quite a bit over the remakes of Case 1 and 2. The former has more locations and puzzles and makes the villain more credible but it's still close to the original; the other remake on the other hand changes the middle part completely, with locations, characters, and an overall method of reaching the galleon that aren't seen in the first version - the merman that's mentioned in the article comes from the remake. It's certainly more inspired than the first remake (AFAIK, Gonzalez decided to do it during a phase of lack of inspiration for Case 8). Case 1 got also a remake from another developer in 2005, Sven Gordan Paranormal Parody: same locations and puzzles, but with cartoony graphics and silly dialogue.
Case 3, although sadly left with no remake, was a huge improvement over the first two. Case 5, beside the noted weaknesses, I also found to be the most eye-searing because of some locations that seem based or referenced from real-life pictures, causing a grating effect. When Case 6 came out I was surprised by the improvement in visuals, and the plot was solid. Mind you, Case 7 and 8 have many strenghts - the sense of urgency, the villain getting little screen time but making his presence felt - but the explanation for how they linked with all previous ones felt thin and hasty.
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Post by elektrolurch on Feb 21, 2017 7:16:33 GMT -5
Wow. Never tried them but sounds like something I would be into. Do those work under Linux, like most AGS games do?
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Post by windfisch on Feb 21, 2017 17:53:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the article!
It was an interesting read and a reminder that it takes time and practice to become a good artist/writer/designer. I might give some of the games a try just to compare them to later efforts by the author - I still have not played a Golden Wake, even though I own it. And Shardlight looks utterly fantastic!
However, I cannot agree with the following statement regarding the 8th entry in the series: "Albeit at times awkwardly cartoony, the graphics here stand up against the best of Sierra's VGA output. One sequence near the beginning of the game is particularly impressive, in which Percival Quentin Jones slams the door on an assassin and Ben throws a statue at him."
I know these things are somewhat subjective, but judging by screenshots and gameplay footage, I honestly believe that even most of Sierra's EGA games are a league or two above this title when it comes to graphic design. Please keep in mind that Sierra's later EGA releases (like King's Quest 4) do look gorgeous to me. Which is rare when it comes to EGA graphics.
Now, I certainly see the improvements compared to earlier Ben Jordan games. But Ben Jordan 8 still has a very noticeable amateurish quality to it: backgrounds look blurry and muddy, often lacking detail, contrast and a proper sense of perspective, while animation quality ranges from quite good (like the scene mentioned in the article) to really awkward, especially the mouth animations on character closeups. I guess Gonzales still had a lot to learn back then.
In conclusion: The above comparison doesn't do Ben Jordan any favors - but it also isn't a fair one, I might add.
To Gonzalez' credit: A Golden Wake seems to be a huge leap in terms of visual quality (he also designed the graphics for this one). To me it looks genuinely good - albeit still not as great as King's Quest 6 or Space Quest 5 or most of Wadjet Eye's other games for that matter.
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Post by alphex on Feb 21, 2017 19:03:27 GMT -5
Could I just start with part 6 (or 7, even) and play the rest of the series from that point, or would it be (highly) recommended to start from the first chapter? These seem super interesting, but I guess the later parts are far superior?
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Post by Gendo Ikari on Feb 22, 2017 1:37:34 GMT -5
You'd better start from the first to better appreciate the series' evolution; beside missing Case 3, suddendly going back to the older episodes would be too harring. You may be even try and play the original versions of Cases 1 and 2 before going for the remakes (1 was already canon by the time 6 came out, as some details that are different from the first version are referenced in a conversation); walkthoughs should be easy to find if you want to have them done quickly.
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Post by blackdrazon on Feb 22, 2017 10:26:46 GMT -5
It'd be nice if there were some spaces around dashes so that they aren't so easily confused for hyphens. Example: "One that involves picking what number a man has behind his back-it baits guesswork" What on earth is a "back-it baits"? I'm afraid nearly every single dash in the article tripped me up like that.
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 22, 2017 10:57:31 GMT -5
Yeah, those should actually be there, I guess something just got mucked up in the conversion to HTML. When I get the chance, I'll go in and fix those.
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Post by blackdrazon on Feb 22, 2017 12:30:05 GMT -5
Thanks!
I used to follow the Ben Jordan games pretty religiously back in the day, but I haven't replayed them in years. I should really give them another go.
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Post by llj on Feb 22, 2017 14:19:25 GMT -5
Could I just start with part 6 (or 7, even) and play the rest of the series from that point, or would it be (highly) recommended to start from the first chapter? These seem super interesting, but I guess the later parts are far superior? There are recurring supporting characters in the series that are introduced in the earlier games. You will want to know this. These are pretty fun little games, an obvious homage/parody/ripoff of the Gabriel Knight games, but enjoyable in their own right. And they're free anyway.
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Post by alphex on Feb 22, 2017 15:45:05 GMT -5
These are pretty fun little games, an obvious homage/parody/ripoff of the Gabriel Knight games, but enjoyable in their own right. And they're free anyway.Sure, but I enjoy adventure games the most when playing with friends, and if the judgement "this game sucks! Why'd you recommend we play this, exactly?" comes up, the mood sours quite a bit.
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Post by windfisch on Feb 23, 2017 11:15:40 GMT -5
These are pretty fun little games, an obvious homage/parody/ripoff of the Gabriel Knight games, but enjoyable in their own right. And they're free anyway.Sure, but I enjoy adventure games the most when playing with friends, and if the judgement "this game sucks! Why'd you recommend we play this, exactly?" comes up, the mood sours quite a bit. You're friends are not exactly the forgiving kind, are they? On the other hand, I often find bad pieces of entertainment/art more bearable when accompanied by others - at least as long as all can agree on how bad it is ("Geteiltes Leid..."). Multiplayer is certainly the most fun way to experience adventure games - I still have fond memories of playing Zak McKracken and Monkey Island with friends when I was a youngling. Good times! And I get where you're coming from - there are so many good games nowadays, that you would not want to waste time on playing the mediocre ones. However, since this particular series is free, you could give it a reasonably short test run before deciding to show one of the games to others. If I may ask: Which adventure games did you and your friends enjoy the most while playing together?
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Ben Jordan
Feb 23, 2017 13:33:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by grundislav on Feb 23, 2017 13:33:34 GMT -5
Hey all, Just dropped in to say thanks for the discussion! It's nice to know people still care about these games so many years down the line. I really enjoyed the article, and felt it was full of some very valid critiques as well as kind words. The Ben Jordan series was definitely a learning experience, and while far from being perfect games, I still look back on them fondly and am proud I was able to accomplish what I set out to do. With regards to the art: yeah, I still had a LOT to learn when making these games (and still do) so looking at some of the backgrounds still makes me cringe a bit. But then, the same can be said about A Golden Wake In any case, thanks again for the nice retrospective. If I'm alliowed a bit of shameless self-promotion, you might want to check out my current project, Lamplight City, which is a detective game with some similar elements to Ben Jordan, although not overtly paranormal. www.grundislavgames.com/lamplightcity
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Post by alphex on Feb 23, 2017 14:59:19 GMT -5
If I may ask: Which adventure games did you and your friends enjoy the most while playing together? The group constellation was different for both of them, but I remember Full Throttle and Gemini Rue being quite well received. I also played Police Quest 2 (with a guide), but that was with just one of my friends who's a seasoned adventure gamer himself. grundislav: Followed you on Twitter; looking promising. I like the detective-setting quite a bit, so it's great to see something new along those lines!
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