Danan: The Jungle Fighter

[toei]

An arcade-style side-scroller RPG starring a half-Conan, half-Tarzan barbarian by some of Shinobi 3's future makers, only released in PAL territories and Brazil for the Master System.

www.hardcoregaming101.net/danan-the-jungle-fighter/

It's a bit rough around the edges, but still one of the Master System's dozen or so interesting titles.

[ommadawnyawn2]

I disagree with the harsh assessment of the SMS library here, Danan is decent but there are plenty of better SMS games. Besides that it's a good article.

[toei]

Sept 25, 2018 11:20:24 GMT -5 ommadawnyawn2 said:

I disagree with the harsh assessment of the SMS library here, Danan is decent but there are plenty of better SMS games. Besides that it's a good article.

Do you mean the line "Like most interesting Master System games, Danan is pretty rough around the edges..."? In my view that's very much the case, though I agree there are better Master System games. In fact it's probably true of 8-bit gaming in general compared to 16-bit games, but in addition to that, development time for Master System games has been said to have been very short because Sega had to support it by itself for the longest, and in general their Genesis output is more polished. Other games I'd include in the general "good but rough" category would include SpellCaster, Kenseiden (which is still one of my favorite games on the system), Alex Kidd in Miracle World, Alex Kidd in Shinobi World (mostly the controls could be less slippery), The Cyber Shinobi (I actually like it, unlike many, but the scrolling is way choppy), The Ninja (I could have never found all the scrolls without a FAQ)...

Apart from those Phantasy Star is certainly very impressive, though the dungeon design can be obtuse in a very '80s way, Golvellius I find super hard to get started with (you just get rushed by so many enemies on the overworld, it's like Zelda on crack), Ninja Gaiden is decent but nothing too inspired (and less frustrating than the NES trilogy), Lord of the Sword is a drag where you just wander around confusedly and the fighting is clunky and not fun, and the Wonderboy games are great at what they do, but I was never a big fan of the series. I played Golden Axe Warrior years ago, but I'm not sure what I'd think about it now, and I'd just rather stick to the arcade Shinobi. Oh, I like Virtua Fighter Mini, and Story of Mio / Hoshi wo Sagashite is a nice little adventure game.

Anything good that I'm missing? I'm always up for more Master System games. I've heard that Asterix platformer and Sonic 1 are good.

[ommadawnyawn2]

That and what you end the OP with, yeah. But yeah, in a wider sense I can agree. I guess I took it to mean in comparison to the NES and other games available at the time, and while the SMS library is relatively small I do think the best titles measure up with the best NES titles and in a few cases surpass them.

Zillion and Wonder Boy 3: DT>Metroid and Faxanadu, though Ufouria trumps Zillion and Gargoyle's Quest 2 is about on par with WB3
Power Strike 2>Gun Nac, and it's about on par with Crisis Force besides the music
Land of Illusion>DuckTales, but maybe not DT2
Kenseiden has a slight edge over Castlevania 1 I think, and is much better than 2.

As for Ninja Gaiden - Well, I don't like the audiovisuals and story as much but I think it plays better than the NES games, provided you don't cheese it.

Golvellius is kinda hard to compare 1:1 with Zelda 1 but I do like it a bit more, mainly for the music and the snarky dialogue. The trick in the beginning is to find good chokepoints and/or hold the button a bit when attacking - you actually hit several times if you do this. Golden Axe Warrior on the other hand, while it has some nice touches and keeps the non-linearity the core mechanics are superior in Zelda 1 making combat feel much better to me.

Sonic 1 and Asterix are definitely up there, absolutely. I would also recommend these:
Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa-Opa
Bubble Bobble - Has ~100 extra levels
R-Type
Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse, Legend of Illusion
Jurassic Park
Enduro Racer (JP ver. - more courses)
​Master of Darkness - Castlevania clone
Power Strike/Aleste - Hard though
Sonic Chaos - Short and easy though
Road Rash
Star Wars - Controls better
Montezuma's Revenge - Very good port
Lucky Dime Caper
Penguin Land - Pretty unique puzzle platformer
Gangster Town - Good light gun game
Psycho Fox
OutRun 3-D, Space Harrier 3-D
Psychic World - Better on MSX in some ways though
Ys - Also not the best ver. but worth a try
Fantasy Zone: The Maze - Fun Pac-Man variation
Cyborg Hunter - Not great, but better than Lord of the Sword
Ultima IV
Aladdin - Not a port, plays similarly to Prince of Persia

[toei]

Yeah, "dozen or so interesting titles" is based on my tastes, and I'm generally pretty difficult. That's actually not a bad haul. That's part of the reason I was happy to have found Danan - just adding one game worth playing to the list is significant with a system that has a smaller library like the SMS.
Regarding the NES, though, I would still say that just having such a huge library means there will inevitably be more good games to play overall, even if the quality ratio isn't any higher. Just in terms of RPGs, even though I think the genre mostly came into its own with the 16-bit generation, you've got Dragon Quest IV and Final Fantasy 3 that I love, plus other solid ones like Just Breed, Dark Lord, etc., whereas on the Master System there's only really PS, Miracle Warriors (which is just too archaic for me) and Ys (why play it when there's the Turbo CD version?).

Interesting comparisons, though. I do prefer Kenseiden over Castlevania 1 or 2, but I'd pick Gargoyle's Quest 2 over Wonderboy 3. My favorite 2D Ninja Gaiden is the Game Gear game, which is very Shinobi-ish. I beat NG1 and 3 last year and kinda hated them. I hate enemies that respawn, and the trolling placement made it that much worse. Plus restarting from 5-1 (or wherever it was) when you lose to the final boss was horrible. NG SMS is smoother and somewhat more fair, but still has some real bullshit moments, and way too many enemies that just materialize too close to you, though at least most of them don't send you into pits like on the NES. The earliest Zelda I really like is Link's Awakening, so Golvellius probably isn't for me either (though I like the variety in level types). Can't speak for Zillion or Metroid, neither does it for me.

I've played some of Aladdin SMS, it's an interesting game (an 8-bit cinematic platformer!). I should probably make a full run some day. Sonic 1 and Asterix are on my list, too. Master of Darkness I found boring (but I'm not big on the linear Castlevanias either) and the bats were super annoying. The original Space Harrier is great, but none of the console versions capture the exhilarating speed and fast controls. I don't think the rest is for me.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Sept 25, 2018 15:50:36 GMT -5 toei said:

Just in terms of RPGs, even though I think the genre mostly came into its own with the 16-bit generation, you've got Dragon Quest IV and Final Fantasy 3 that I love, plus other solid ones like Just Breed, Dark Lord, etc., whereas on the Master System there's only really PS, Miracle Warriors (which is just too archaic for me) and Ys (why play it when there's the Turbo CD version?).

And Ultima IV (and arguably Dragon Crystal but it's a pretty basic rogue-like). But I don't care for most 8-bit era RPGs either. 

GG Ninja Gaiden was pretty fun, but really short and easy IIRC?

Hmm alright. Well I ordered them roughly by quality so would recommend trying the top 10 or so first. Space Harrier 3D and Outrun 3D should be played mainly for the 3D effect with the glasses, they're kind of archaic in other respects but good for the time. 

[320x240]

What really separates the NES library from the SMS one (and every other 8-bit consoles) is the uniformity of the games. On the NES most games seem to be designed with a set of well defined limitations in mind. It is almost as if a group of people designed the same game over and over again, slowly refining what could be done within these limitations but never really trying to break free from them. Imagine a few hundred Master System games made in the likeness of Kung Fu Kid and you would have something similar for Sega's machine.

[toei]

ommadawnyawn2 Yeah, GG Ninja Gaiden was both short and easy (though the final boss was annoying due to the time limit and hit detection), but since 8-bit side-scrollers are so often hard, the latter didn't bother me. Could have definitely used another level or two, though. I tend not to count Ultima IV cause it's just a port, and I really don't tend to play early WRPGs.

320x240 I'm not sure I get what you mean. Are you talking about technical limitations, gameplay limitations, or both? Seems to me that there are certainly a lot of NES games that follow genre formulas, but you've also got a decent number of original games.

[320x240]

Sept 26, 2018 3:25:13 GMT -5 toei said:

320x240 I'm not sure I get what you mean. Are you talking about technical limitations, gameplay limitations, or both? Seems to me that there are certainly a lot of NES games that follow genre formulas, but you've also got a decent number of original games.

Sorry, I meant technical limitations. They managed to get quite a lot of variety out what they got. Come to think of it, there is something similar going on with the Gameboy and Game Gear library.