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Post by kal on Jun 10, 2009 2:59:24 GMT -5
)': I don't know if I'm interpreting that correctly, but I think it was a jab at me... No it wasn't just a light joke at the discussed articles expense. Whereby instead of including any information he just makes things up that he considers funny
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Post by ryochan on Jun 10, 2009 4:54:12 GMT -5
Well, let's not pick on the guy who wrote the article too much. You can tell his heart was in the right place! As I said before I do look forward to seeing a revision, and other stuff from him as well
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Post by mercatfat on Jun 20, 2009 2:12:41 GMT -5
Just to clarify a few things, as a recent love interest in my life drew me away from caring about revising anything and I haven't checked this thread in a bit.
One, voice is not an issue for me. I have my voice. Take it or leave it. It isn't "developing," aside from all authors going through changes due to time and culture. I won't go into too much wankery as I'm not Mr. Rogers, but I've been a published author to decent success for a bit around Seattle, mostly in our "alternative press." Obviously, publishing game things are a bit of a different matter than local pseudo-political and cultural bits.
Second, I find it utterly hilarious this debate has gone on for so many posts. If you hate the article, awesome. But it's not in any way whatsoever "random"; every word and joke choice is very much deliberate. Whether or not you get the full context is a different argument altogether.
Lastly, I think I've already made clear that I don't intend to amuse everybody, because I'm not Matthew McConaughey's career. I realize that I won't go over well with everyone, least of all anyone who has ever laughed at VG Cats. If you hate this article, I don't know what to say other than "get over yourself." I will add a bit more actual information to appease those who REALLY WANT TO KNOW about how you can lose a limb in Time Killers and use it to uselessly bleed onto your opponent, but don't expect a terrible lot more. Not because I don't want to say more, but because there isn't a lot more to say.
And to make absolutely clear, Ninja Clowns wasn't meant to be anything short of a mental collapse, which if you actually play the game then you'll understand why the article came out as such. Just sayin'.
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Post by jorpho on Jun 20, 2009 17:59:36 GMT -5
I think I've already made clear that I don't intend to amuse everybody, because I'm not Matthew McConaughey's career. HOW IS THAT AMUSING
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Post by Garamoth on Jun 20, 2009 18:54:18 GMT -5
Damn, these pop-culture jokes are pretty lame.
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Post by zzz on Jun 20, 2009 20:36:06 GMT -5
Yeah dude, no one ever asked that you "amuse everybody", but it certainly wouldn't hurt to avoid pointless pop culture references.
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Post by Scylla on Jun 20, 2009 20:58:57 GMT -5
You know, it's funny, I usually feel that there's too much praise in this forum, with everyone automatically throwing a "Great article!" post in a topic even when I believe there are flaws worth pointing out, making me usually the harshest critic around here when I actually take the time to read and comment on some articles. But with this article, it's almost like we have a mob mentality going on. A few people rag on it and suddenly everybody comes out the woodwork to post their own negative comments. I have to wonder if most everyone was praising the article, would most of you still have the nerve to be as harsh as you're being?
So in this case, I think the negativity is overboard. But only slightly so.
I wouldn't say this is the worst article on HG101 (and there are plenty I still haven't even gotten to). At least this article uses proper English, only has a few typos, and uses a colorful, varied vocabulary (and I don't mean "colorful" as in crude, the claims suggested of which seem to be exaggerated to me. Even the Contra bit isn't that bad, and anyone offended by anything in the article needs to lighten up. Being genuinely being concerned about domestic violence and genocide and cracking some dumb jokes aren't mutually exclusive. This is the freakin' Internet, for crying out loud, and this is a site about video games, no less. There's no need to be so uptight and take things so seriously.) Anyway, to get back on point, that's more than I could say about, say, the Kunio-kun article. I believe it's been cleaned up since, but I remember a point in which any section not written by Kurt was incoherent to the point that I could clearly tell the writer didn't speak English as his first language, and those sections taught me far less about the games than this article.
And in terms of general trends, I think a far worse problem for HG101, rather than the ones leaning toward humor, is the increasing presence of over-bloated articles that come off more like FAQs than retrospectives or reviews. If you want to talk pure word count versus information, some of those are far worse culprits of saying so little with so much, to the point that a huge paragraph of a few hundred words exists to explain just one tiny thing that could be expressed in a single sentence. This article could stand to have some more information, like, say, I didn't notice a single mention of music and sound effects, but I think it would be more worthwhile to trim out the superfluous elements than tack on even more. Take it from someone who used to write 2500 word reviews: brevity is a virtue.
But let's get right down to it, yeah, the article is painful to read. I disagree with anyone who's suggesting than the references and jokes are "random". Quite the contrary. I get quite clearly that they're deliberate - TOO deliberate. They come off as if the writer came up with them weeks prior thinking "Oh, this one is a real doozy! I gotta work this one in!" It's the placement that feels random, because they never quite gel with the context. But if there's any word I'd use to describe the article it's "forced". FORCED. All caps for motherfreaking emphasis. Like this one:
"This arcade is brimming with action and life, even if everyone has a worse haircut then your finely-trimmed bowl cut self."
Uh... what? How is this supposed to make sense in any shape or form? It's just a blatant, random starting point for the endless stream of hair jokes, as if if you keep repeating it enough eventually it'll become funny.
Or how about:
"Afterwards, said long-hair walks away in shame, wallowing in the display of Jackalopes that Dave Coulier helped popularize via America's Funniest People; that is, before he would forever be held in shame because he'd never find another woman like Alanis Morissette, a woman who would go down on him in a theater, not to mention redefine what irony meant in the minds of everyone who would listen to the radio between 1996 and 1998."
Does it ever end? I couldn't freakin' believe what I was reading there. Does this get a world record or something?
And then this one:
"You thought that perhaps if he had opted for hammer pants instead of spandex, he might parachute to slightly less doom among the drop, but it quickly became clear that when it came to being penetrated by spikes, your internal organs Could Touch That."
I believe at this point I literally hung my head, as if in shame for submitting my mind to reading this.
As long as the article is, I don't think I ever laughed once. I think there might've been one half smile. Even the game-related jokes, which should be perfect for an article like this, fell completely flat on their faces, like that groan-worthy reference to Bloody Tears. Some people are arguing that this isn't their "style" of humor, but I honestly have a hard time imagining anyone finding this article particularly amusing, besides laughing at the games themselves. These are just really bad, failed attempts at humor.
And I feel for ya because I've written corny, lame jokes many times myself. I've done forced humor, and I've done pop culture references. There are viable approaches to everything you've attempted in the article, so more power to you if you want to continue on that path. But if you're convincing yourself that this article is God's greatest gift to humor, you're not going to get anywhere. You have to take a step back, look at it objectively, and realize when your shit stinks.
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Post by zzz on Jun 20, 2009 21:24:59 GMT -5
And in terms of general trends, I think a far worse problem for HG101, rather than the ones leaning toward humor, is the increasing presence of over-bloated articles that come off more like FAQs than retrospectives or reviews. If you want to talk pure word count versus information, some of those are far worse culprits of saying so little with so much, to the point that a huge paragraph of a few hundred words exists to explain just one tiny thing that could be expressed in a single sentence. This is the greatest thing ever said on HG101. I wish we still had karma so I could rep the shit out of you for it. This is good. And these are shit.
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Post by mercatfat on Jun 21, 2009 0:00:57 GMT -5
Suc-
Given that I actually know you, I appreciate the feedback. Even if I don't necessarily agree, I understand your point of view completely.
I'm not sure if I should take the "too deliberate" bit as a complement, as everything I write truly is stream of consciousness.
As far as the hair thing goes, it wasn't at all meant to be repeated to the point of "being funny;" much rather, it was more there to keep ADD-rattled minds on track. I actually really wasn't trying to be funny at all, really. I am, however, not a big fan of using the same word or term twice if I can avoid it, which is more of a style thing than anything else. I can completely understand why this can be seen as irksome, however.
I'm not trying to claim the article is amazing and you all should love it. There's plenty of reasons you can not like it, and that's truly fine by me. It's not everyone's style nor sense of humor. I get this. Some of the jokes are painful, and I'll fully admit I hate the Hammer Pants joke and actually removed in the revised draft alongside a couple other groaners. I feel though reading back through the article that there aren't NEARLY as many pop references as is being suggested; and most of them are in the America-painting intro. As mentioned, that section is purely to give a reader unfamiliar with the time period a fairly accurate, and completely true, account of the era. To be absolutely clear: those events completely, absolutely happened to me.
I'm as much a critic of my work as anyone here, for certain. My problem is that some of the criticism, I feel, is a bit off base and missing the point at times.
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Post by jorpho on Jun 21, 2009 13:50:52 GMT -5
As far as the hair thing goes, it wasn't at all meant to be repeated to the point of "being funny;" much rather, it was more there to keep ADD-rattled minds on track. But if the readers of this site are willing to slog through "over-bloated articles that come off more like FAQs than retrospectives or reviews" featuring sections where "a huge paragraph of a few hundred words exists to explain just one tiny thing that could be expressed in a single sentence", surely their "ADD-rattled minds" can manage to stay on track without such repetition?
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Post by mercatfat on Jun 21, 2009 14:01:19 GMT -5
I'm really trying not to respond to anything with snark, but way to miss the point. Mostly thanks to ignoring the rest of the paragraph, re: style. It's also just my narrative voice, like it or hate it.
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Post by Shellshock on Jun 21, 2009 19:31:10 GMT -5
And in terms of general trends, I think a far worse problem for HG101, rather than the ones leaning toward humor, is the increasing presence of over-bloated articles that come off more like FAQs than retrospectives or reviews. If you want to talk pure word count versus information, some of those are far worse culprits of saying so little with so much, to the point that a huge paragraph of a few hundred words exists to explain just one tiny thing that could be expressed in a single sentence. This is the greatest thing ever said on HG101. I wish we still had karma so I could rep the shit out of you for it. Ugh gosh... You have to be fucking kidding me. Have you read your own articles? You know, it's funny, I usually feel that there's too much praise in this forum, with everyone automatically throwing a "Great article!" post in a topic even when I believe there are flaws worth pointing out, making me usually the harshest critic around here when I actually take the time to read and comment on some articles. I think it's understood that typos and missing/repeated words and/or punctuation is a trademark of this site. To the point where we barely correct each other anymore. It's sad, because most of it could be solved with a simple spell checker, yet laziness allows typos to thrive like weeds through a sidewalk's cracks.
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Post by Discoalucard on Jun 21, 2009 22:12:24 GMT -5
You know, I've spent an average of 20 hours a week for the past five years working on this site. Cut me some slack if it's not 100% perfectly copy edited.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2009 22:30:29 GMT -5
Is that really entirely on your shoulders, though? The onus really belongs to the people writing the articles in the first place. Which reminds me.
I asked a couple years back if I could proofread the articles on the site to get it looking a bit more professional. Sorry I never got back to you on that, but once I got into it, I realized how big of an issue it really was. Changing a typo lead to changing a paragraph, which would sometimes alter the entire voice of an article. It just felt like it could lead down a slippery slope.
But yeah, the only thing that really gets to me is the frequency of typos. The actual content and voice of an article can be debated until the cows come home, but typos are really easy to correct, just by slowly re-reading something before putting it out there. Make no mistake, though, I think everyone who's contributed to the site has done a really great job, and I respect the effort put into every article. I'd just like to see fewer typos!
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Post by Scylla on Jun 22, 2009 2:46:33 GMT -5
I think it's understood that typos and missing/repeated words and/or punctuation is a trademark of this site. To the point where we barely correct each other anymore. It's sad, because most of it could be solved with a simple spell checker, yet laziness allows typos to thrive like weeds through a sidewalk's cracks. That isn't what I was really getting at, actually. The minor errors don't bug me too much. A lot of my favorite pieces are by Kurt, and everybody knows he's just about the worst self-editor around here. :P When I get into the flow of reading an article and there's a little hiccup, my brain automatically mentally fixes it to how it should be, and on I go. Each article has its own unique combination of the presence and lack of flaws, but usually I find myself pointing out when an article comes off as too dry, meandering, or redundant. Redundancy makes my mind explode far more than simple typos, as I start mentally slicing and dicing a paragraph, removing all the phrases that essentially repeat what's already been said. I had to come a long way to get to that point, though. When I read my old reviews from around 5 years ago, I want to go into a conniption over my own redundancy. But of course I'm too lazy to actually improve them. :P So I fully understand if writers here accept and realize their mistakes without taking the effort to remedy them. As long as future pieces show improvement, I'm a happy camper.
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