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Post by sandrock on Apr 5, 2007 10:28:21 GMT -5
Battle Master 2 has it's own pilots not from anime (unlike Battle Assault)
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recap
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Post by recap on Apr 5, 2007 18:47:15 GMT -5
After reading the article I realize there's no mention of Natsume, the game's developer. They developed the Battle Master series too. A missed opportunity to speak about this group's programming abilities, I believe.
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 10, 2007 20:25:54 GMT -5
ZZZ: I just wanted to let you know that the sprites from Endless Duel are not segmented sprites, as you copied and pasted it seems from the false wiki article, which I've already altered accordingly last week. " Mechs are animated differently in this game than in other fighters. Each limb is animated separately, which allows the console to display large sprites with smooth animation without requiring too much memory. " Just giving you the heads up. The spritework in Endless Duel are solid, single frame sprites, and not seperated limb work, like in Super Robot Wars (PSX/PS2), and the Battle Assault/Master series (PSX). Here's a visual example of the two, and their differences: Battle Assault/MasterEndless DuelJust giving you the heads up. As is, your article is a great read. ^_~ I dont even think the segmented sprite technique was being used in a fighting game prior to Battle Master (JPN). On a related note, I'd be willing to help with a Gundam Battle Assault/Master article, that's for sure. And, since it's my first post, Hi everyone.
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Post by zzz on Apr 10, 2007 21:13:33 GMT -5
Was not from Wiki. I have been playing this game for years and that has been what people have always said about it, so I put that in there.
While they might not be segmented, it is obvious that only parts of each sprite are animated at a time.
If this gets modified change it to something like this:
"Mechs are animated differently in this game than in other fighters. Only certain parts of each mech are animated for each move, which allows the console to display large sprites with smooth animation without requiring too much memory."
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Post by Discoalucard on Apr 10, 2007 21:19:14 GMT -5
Eh. I'm gonna be editing down the Endless Duel section a bit anyway, since some of the things would now be a bit redundant in the big scheme of the article. EDIT: Need more pics, but here: hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/gundam/gundam.htmAlso, can anyone grab screenshots of the different pilots from the first Battle Assault, and maybe detail some differences between Battle Master 2 and Battle Assault? And Wikipedia mentioned that Battle Assault 2 was broken up into two different budget games for Japan, is that true? And if so, what games?
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 10, 2007 21:41:04 GMT -5
Was not from Wiki. I have been playing this game for years and that has been what people have always said about it, so I put that in there. While they might not be segmented, it is obvious that only parts of each sprite are animated at a time. If this gets modified change it to something like this: "Mechs are animated differently in this game than in other fighters. Only certain parts of each mech are animated for each move, which allows the console to display large sprites with smooth animation without requiring too much memory." That's not true, and the statement would still be incorrect. Memory was of no concern when animating these sprites. They are robots/mecha, to begin with. Making them have a ton of jerky, human like movement would be the opposite of what you would do with them. It was purely an artistic touch, that didnt even carry on to EVERY Gundam/mech in the same game. More examples of why that statement is fasle - Made and animated in the same vein, are these sprites from Street Fighter 3: Third Strike (Dreamcast rips) - Both sets are animated identicaly. Also, when dealing with sprite animations, its not "what part that moves, and what doesnt move each frame" that affects the console's power, but how many frames it has. For example, remember that terrible port of Street Fighter Alpha 2 for the Super Nintendo? Or the Playstation versions of Darkstalkers, or one of Capcom's other fighting games fromthe CPS-2 hardware? Remember how all of those lacked alot of frames of animation, that other versions of the game had (Saturn, Arcade, etc.)? That's because both the SNES and PSX couldnt display, and run all those sprites of animation without severe slowdown, and/or graphical loss, and detail loss. How I helped (again). = P Eh. I'm gonna be editing down the Endless Duel section a bit anyway, since some of the things would now be a bit redundant in the big scheme of the article. EDIT: Need more pics, but here: hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/gundam/gundam.htmAlso, can anyone grab screenshots of the different pilots from the first Battle Assault, and maybe detail some differences between Battle Master 2 and Battle Assault? And Wikipedia mentioned that Battle Assault 2 was broken up into two different budget games for Japan, is that true? And if so, what games? I'll grab those shots for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2007 22:26:41 GMT -5
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 10, 2007 22:46:01 GMT -5
Haha, Amuro's Nu Gundam portrait. Too good. EDIT: Speaking of Gundam fighters, there's an excellent arcade fighter called Mobile Suit Gundam EX Revue (MAME emulates it almost flawlessly). It's a very well done "Street Fighter II clone", with pretty nice animations, and spritework. It predates Endless Duel by a year. Here's some screens - If you're a fan of the Battle Assault series, and Endless Duel, I definitely suggest you snag this game, and quick. I cant stop playing it. XD EDIT2: Ahh, I see you grabbed info, and screens for it yourself, Shini. Awesome. And again with the segmented sprites qip. EX Revue's sprites aren not segmented. And also in the SEED section, it mentions Turn A Gundam being excluded as a Gundam saga, but that isnt the case anywhere, IRL. Turn A is actually quite popular. It, along with series/sagas like Wing, SEED, and G, are of their own story, seperate from the original timeline (which consist of the first Gundam series, Zeta Gundam so fourth). So you may want to alter that aswell. Great work so far. Keep it up. =)
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Post by sandrock on Apr 11, 2007 0:04:10 GMT -5
Oh, I think it's must be noted in article, that Patricia, Rita, Symeon, Gloria and Pixie are newcomers to japanese Battle Master 2. It's really strange to see their profiles under the american Battle Assault review (it's said, that "The roster has been expanded more to include even more UC characters", but Battle Master 2 (and it's prequel) has no UC characters, it only has UC mecha, and characters are original, created specially for the game. In Battle Assault these original characters were replaced by UC ones from the anime series, so their profiles must be added too, to avoid confusion).
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Apr 11, 2007 1:56:10 GMT -5
Haha, Amuro's Nu Gundam portrait. Too good. EDIT2: Ahh, I see you grabbed info, and screens for it yourself, Shini. Awesome. And again with the segmented sprites qip. EX Revue's sprites aren not segmented. That's odd, because if I disable certain sprite layers in my emu, certain parts of the characters disappear, for instance, the GOUF's arm during its win pose. Which lead me to believe that the sprites were segmented. I didn't say anything about Turn A not being popular, but it's sort've an oddball in that it's like a Greatest Hits album, not really a pillar of the Gundam franchise, but rather an assamblage of popular elements from the other franchises. It also has really goofy mech designs that are an extreme departure from Gundam norm. Considering Turn A part of the main sequence of Gundam sagas seems to be treading dangerously close to including SD Gundam as well, and I just don't buy that. Most of the people I've met in various Gundam boards like Turn A, but don't consider it a major part of the Gundam franchise.
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Post by zzz on Apr 11, 2007 2:31:13 GMT -5
There are not any credits, or mention of Shinigami taking care of the GWED screenshots.
"Gundam: The Battle Master" character profile for Smith: It starts off by mentioning his ethnicity. Probably not a good idea.
Also I still say V is a fighter, making G NOT the first console fighter in the franchise. However, I really do not care, so whatever.
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 11, 2007 9:57:18 GMT -5
Haha, Amuro's Nu Gundam portrait. Too good. EDIT2: Ahh, I see you grabbed info, and screens for it yourself, Shini. Awesome. And again with the segmented sprites qip. EX Revue's sprites aren not segmented. That's odd, because if I disable certain sprite layers in my emu, certain parts of the characters disappear, for instance, the GOUF's arm during its win pose. Which lead me to believe that the sprites were segmented. I didn't say anything about Turn A not being popular, but it's sort've an oddball in that it's like a Greatest Hits album, not really a pillar of the Gundam franchise, but rather an assamblage of popular elements from the other franchises. It also has really goofy mech designs that are an extreme departure from Gundam norm. Considering Turn A part of the main sequence of Gundam sagas seems to be treading dangerously close to including SD Gundam as well, and I just don't buy that. Most of the people I've met in various Gundam boards like Turn A, but don't consider it a major part of the Gundam franchise. I dont know whom you spoke to, but the majority of Gundam fans liked Turn A. Yea, the design was a depature, but it didnt hender the series from becoming incredibly popular over the course of the past 7 years or so. Japan loved it, and it has a very nice sized following in the states. Turn A Gundam even made his various appearances in all the major games, and Super Robot Wars series aswell. I dont know how you feel you can simply "brush off" Gundam series, which consist of 50 eps, and 2 theatrical compilation films. I suggest you snag a DVD of the series, and just watch it. It's pretty damn epic. It was directed by Yoshiyuki Tomino himself, with initial designs by Syd Mead (of Blade Runner fame, and that's why this design was a depature from others). But yea, just trying to help. You definitely dont want to leave false information like that in one of these articles. EDIT About Sprites: Alot of 2-D videogames used a multi-layer sprite technique (especially in fighting games, and arcade games) for years, but they arent segmented however. It's just a way of layering the data. The end result was still the 1 solid, frame or sprite. Segmented sprites, are segmented because of the way they are needed to rotate for animations, like when you rotate a sprite in Photoshop, and it gets all grainy, etc? They do that for animations. It cuts back on the data used, and at the same time allows a more fluid animating process for movement, in the same vein as Polygons do for 3-D games. Hell, ever played one of the recent Super Robot Wars for the PS2? These sprites are segmented too. Great example of what I mean Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=-o-V7FjmHRoFor more of an example, let's take a look at Sentinel from X-Men: Children of the Atom. Bet you didnt know that his sprite data is on multiple layers, did ya? But what you get, is one, solid sprite. No rotating, scewered sprites here, all clean, frame by frame (traditionaly) animated moves, attacks, and whatever. But his data exist on several different, cohesive layers.
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Post by Shinigami on Apr 11, 2007 12:53:42 GMT -5
EDIT: Speaking of Gundam fighters, there's an excellent arcade fighter called Mobile Suit Gundam EX Revue (MAME emulates it almost flawlessly). It's a very well done "Street Fighter II clone", with pretty nice animations, and spritework. It predates Endless Duel by a year. EDIT2: Ahh, I see you grabbed info, and screens for it yourself, Shini. Awesome. And again with the segmented sprites qip. EX Revue's sprites aren not segmented. Uh... I didn't do anything for that game. Until I saw it yesterday I didn't know it existed.
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 11, 2007 12:58:48 GMT -5
Wrong person/name I mentioned then. My apologeez.
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Post by zzz on Apr 11, 2007 13:15:28 GMT -5
While we are at it, why not Macross shooters?
(Joking, but if this does happen I call the FC and SFC games.)
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