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Sengoku
Apr 16, 2007 21:08:19 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Apr 16, 2007 21:08:19 GMT -5
There's a difference between "produced" and "designed". I wouldn't doubt that SNK produced many ADK games, much like Nintendo produced many HAL games.
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Sengoku
Apr 16, 2007 21:30:17 GMT -5
Post by Neo Rasa on Apr 16, 2007 21:30:17 GMT -5
Great article. Personally I really like Sengoku and Sengoku and consider them very underrated, but I'm just glad to see an article on all three games (the third one is great! it's a shame so few people played it) up on the site.
Part of the reason Sengoku and Sengoku 2 are so underrated is simply because they came out too late. The pre-canned Final Fight style combos in beat'em ups became massively popular compared to the freedom offered in Technos/etc. beat'em ups. The older beat'em ups are all about killing off thousands of weaklings with a couple of stronger guys every few screens. The newer beat'em ups have more of a setpiece mentality where you fight smaller groups of tougher foes (even the evolution from Sengoku to Sengoku 3 shows this change in style). Final Fight is still one of the best compromises of both ideals ever. The arcade version of POW also.
I do have to mention, you left out that the original Sengoku has the best move ever of any beat'em up. Whenever you fight a samurai, if you tap forward and attack inbetween the frame of the samurai's sword being up and his sword coming down on you, you CATCH THE SWORD BETWEEN YOUR HANDS AND BREAK IT IN HALF. The samurai then looks at the broken hilt and throws it away in frustration, then assumes a martial arts stance and continues fighting!
Kitsune: ADK's been around for quite a while though within SNK (they even did Sky Soldiers and Time Soldiers). I'd always consider them and SNK to be synonymous, they were even going to have World Heroes characters in King of Fighters at one point. And ADK has never made a game that didn't originally get released on SNK hardware. With all that in mind I would say that the Nintendo/HAL comparison is accurate.
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Sengoku
Apr 16, 2007 21:41:08 GMT -5
Post by Allie on Apr 16, 2007 21:41:08 GMT -5
Great article. Personally I really like Sengoku and Sengoku and consider them very underrated, but I'm just glad to see an article on all three games (the third one is great! it's a shame so few people played it) up on the site. Part of the reason Sengoku and Sengoku 2 are so underrated is simply because they came out too late. The pre-canned Final Fight style combos in beat'em ups became massively popular compared to the freedom offered in Technos/etc. beat'em ups. The older beat'em ups are all about killing off thousands of weaklings with a couple of stronger guys every few screens. The newer beat'em ups have more of a setpiece mentality where you fight smaller groups of tougher foes (even the evolution from Sengoku to Sengoku 3 shows this change in style). My problem with Sengoku 1 and 2 are that it's just way, way, WAY too easy to get hit. Thematically, they're more interesting than the third, but a lot like ADK's Ninja Combat, sometimes it just doesn't seem like an entirely fair game...
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Sengoku
Apr 16, 2007 21:48:07 GMT -5
Post by Neo Rasa on Apr 16, 2007 21:48:07 GMT -5
Agreed, the hit detection favors the computer to an almost absurd extent at times. A common theme in all of ADK's games (even Sky Soldiers).
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Sengoku
Apr 17, 2007 14:55:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 14:55:07 GMT -5
I do have to mention, you left out that the original Sengoku has the best move ever of any beat'em up. Whenever you fight a samurai, if you tap forward and attack inbetween the frame of the samurai's sword being up and his sword coming down on you, you CATCH THE SWORD BETWEEN YOUR HANDS AND BREAK IT IN HALF. The samurai then looks at the broken hilt and throws it away in frustration, then assumes a martial arts stance and continues fighting! Damn! I didn't even know you could do that! I played through Sengoku 2 two days ago (and I beat the first one a bit of a while ago). They're not horrid games, but they're not outstanding either. I will give credit that the scenes where you get whisked away to another plane of existence and all sorts of Japanese cultural symbols and ghosts appear are total drug trips. However, they move too slow for my tastes and I seem to get my ass kicked every time a big samurai enemy shows up. I normally wouldn't mind, but they're almost as common as a basic enemy! >_< Sengoku 3 is totally tops, however. Why they decided to revamp the series is beyond me, but I'm damn glad they did.
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Sengoku
Apr 17, 2007 16:25:11 GMT -5
Post by necromaniac on Apr 17, 2007 16:25:11 GMT -5
I prefer the outlandish flavor of Sengoku 1 and 2 but 3 is a much better game. Shame it ditched the unique flavor of the first two though....
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Sengoku
Apr 20, 2007 9:12:41 GMT -5
Post by Gilder on Apr 20, 2007 9:12:41 GMT -5
ugh, finally catching up on reading all these new articles.
Excellent work David! About damn time Sengoku 3 get's recognized although I will agree with ninjarygar that enemies have WAY too much HP for there own good, bogging down the game a bit in my opinion.
BTW, I always thought it was "Sengoku Densyo". Is "Denshou" another spelling of the same thing or is "Densyo" just wrong?
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Sengoku
Apr 20, 2007 15:03:39 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2007 15:03:39 GMT -5
Man, Sengoku 3 takes quite a long while to beat for a beat-em-up. Easily at least an hour on average. It was real cool for the most part (started with Falcon and switched to Byakki mid-game), buuuuuut... am I alone in thinking that the final boss transcends all boundaries of cheapness? I mean, that fucker kept doing his goddamn demon head summoning bullshit which he was invincible for about ten seconds every time he did so, and I'd get hit by at least one wave of heads nearly every time! He'd do that exact same shit three times in a row VERY frequently! I spent five continues trying pitifully to beat him! AGH!!! Sorry, sorry... I expect final bosses to be cheap, ESPECIALLY in BEUs. Buuuuut... this asshole just crossed a line. Oh well... besides that, I think it's a damn fine game.
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Sengoku
Apr 20, 2007 22:04:24 GMT -5
Post by steven on Apr 20, 2007 22:04:24 GMT -5
Nice work on the article. Have you guys played the SFC version? I know a NG nutcase who thinks pretty highly of the SFC version, FWIW. I haven't played the arcade version enough to say, but the SFC version is pretty cool, despite subpar graphics and sound.
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Sengoku
Apr 20, 2007 22:29:17 GMT -5
Post by Shellshock on Apr 20, 2007 22:29:17 GMT -5
I never played Sengoku 1 or 2, but the third one is good. I loved the different characters and the combo system, but the stages are not on par with the rest of the game's quality. I got pretty far on practicing big combos and juggles (although not as far as the one's on attract mode), and so I found myself too busy with that to enjoy other aspects of the game. I don't even remember if I finished it. To me it was all about doing long combos. Once I got that down, I got bored. I guess it became too systematic.
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Sengoku
Apr 22, 2007 12:21:25 GMT -5
Post by Neo Rasa on Apr 22, 2007 12:21:25 GMT -5
Nice work on the article. Have you guys played the SFC version? I know a NG nutcase who thinks pretty highly of the SFC version, FWIW. I haven't played the arcade version enough to say, but the SFC version is pretty cool, despite subpar graphics and sound. The main letdown with the SNES version is it loses a lot of the atmosphere of the arcade game. In addition, they add in throws but jump attacks are not as useful for crowd control (usually only "colliding" with a single enemy per jump attack). It's like they added more, but the gameplay ends up being just as simple. The game's graphics and sound would be excusable but it moves at such a slow speed.
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Sengoku
May 8, 2007 11:28:44 GMT -5
Post by Shellshock on May 8, 2007 11:28:44 GMT -5
As a final thought I have to say that Sengoku 3 is not that good of a game. Sure the characters have great animation, arsenal of moves and graphic design, plus the combo system is nice. But the stages are bland and uninteresting and the game relies too much on its combos for playability. The result: Sengoku 3 has no soul. It is too mechanic and systematic too keep you interested for the whole ride. It's like the Golden Sun of beat'em-ups...
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Sengoku
May 8, 2007 12:43:00 GMT -5
Post by Revolver Ocelot on May 8, 2007 12:43:00 GMT -5
As a final thought I have to say that Sengoku 3 is not that good of a game. Sure the characters have great animation, arsenal of moves and graphic design, plus the combo system is nice. But the stages are bland and uninteresting and the game relies too much on its combos for playability. The result: Sengoku 3 has no soul. It is too mechanic and systematic too keep you interested for the whole ride. It's like the Golden Sun of beat'em-ups... What in the everloving...? Dude, when have stages in a beat'em up ever been more than a mere backdrop to the chaos? Did I miss some revolutionary beat'em up/platformer hybrid with Zelda-style puzzles or something? Relies too much on combos? COMBOS? Have you EVER played a beat'em up before? As long as your fist meets with a bad guy's face as often as possible, a beat'em up is doing exactly what it should be doing.. that's why they're called beat'em ups.
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Sengoku
May 8, 2007 13:48:45 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on May 8, 2007 13:48:45 GMT -5
BTW, I always thought it was "Sengoku Densyo". Is "Denshou" another spelling of the same thing or is "Densyo" just wrong? It's just an alternate (and more atypical nowadays) romanization. "sho" and "syo" are the same thing basically. Just like some places will write out the double vowels ("ou") or just a single one ("o"), usually with an accent.
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Post by Shellshock on May 9, 2007 8:54:07 GMT -5
What in the everloving...? Dude, when have stages in a beat'em up ever been more than a mere backdrop to the chaos? Did I miss some revolutionary beat'em up/platformer hybrid with Zelda-style puzzles or something? Relies too much on combos? COMBOS? Have you EVER played a beat'em up before? As long as your fist meets with a bad guy's face as often as possible, a beat'em up is doing exactly what it should be doing.. that's why they're called beat'em ups.Yes, you are right, but other games have beautiful stages that are as much part of the game as the rest. Think of Undercover Cops' first stage, where you pick up a Hummer, or try to push the boss into the metal compactor. And Vendetta's grocery stores, where you can slam enemies against shelves and destroy the whole place. Hell, even Taito's "alright" Growl has lots of things to smash, animals that help you, and a train sequence where you jump over train-cars. Sengoku 3's are just boring and bland, there's nothing going on. Even Final Fight's stages where kinda cool in its time, even if all they had for them were nice graphics. As far as combos, I think I used the wrong word. The game doesn't exclusively "rely" on combos, but that's what the game is all about. Leave combos out and there's no gameplay left. The game is too automatic and soulless.
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