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Post by ryochan on Sept 1, 2009 18:32:41 GMT -5
I rather liked Working Designs, although I would have to see the original script to say whether or not their translations were acceptable. Myself and a friend translate here and there, we're not the best at it of course, but we've spent our fair share of time with lines that sound great in Japanese, but a little strange in English. Trying to make it sound accurate in English, while retaining the feel of the Japanese, can be VERY hard. Especially, as people have mentioned, with jokes or cultural references.
Anyway, interesting read. I love learning more about translations. And I especially had to roll my eyes at the group that wanted to do "literal translations" as I've met a scanlation group who does that and think it's fine if the English makes no sense... *Sigh* I'll have to listen to the Bleustein interviews at some point.
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Post by Discoalucard on Sept 1, 2009 18:44:07 GMT -5
Yeah, if there's one thing about Vic, he's a gamer, and anyone who's followed his posts and comments on any given podcast or message board knows that. He's also very open to conversation. Back in the usenet days(daaaang this was years ago), Victor used to post on the Lunar boards. When I was like 13, I had visions of starting up my own fanzine. (This was before the WWW was really getting popular.) Vic patrolled the boards on Prodigy, and given that the I loved Lunar and Popful Mail, I asked for an interview. He wanted prior copies of the fanzine - which, since this would've been my first, I didn't have any - so it didn't go anywhere. But still! Also, thanks to MP83, we have a real logo for this article. Hooray!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 20:24:17 GMT -5
Maybe the diehard WD fans are just the ones who were with them from the beginning. I knew they existed for a long time, but didn't get a Saturn of my own until much later, and still have yet to get a Sega CD. My first real experience with them was Lunar: SSSC, and while it was great at the time, I can look back and admit that the translation had some major flaws.
It isn't so much that they made changes to jokes to make them more relevant to the round-eyes. Rather, it's the fact that they put so many blatantly unfunny and dated lines into their work. It's as if their staff was comprised of only Super Ultra Mega Nerds, who live for pop culture and burn upon contact with sunlight. Some might say I'm being too harsh on them, but I like to believe that jokes are supposed to be...you know...funny. Not painful, not groan-inducing. They should actually be humorous. Assailing the audience with a hurricane of quotes and pop culture references was not the way to handle things. But so be it. Hopefully modern translators have learned from their example.
God, just imagine Vagrant Story as done by Working Designs. "Reinforcements? I'm getting too old for this shit!"
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Post by wyrdwad on Sept 1, 2009 20:53:29 GMT -5
I dunno, I found them overall pretty funny. (:
-Tom
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 20:57:38 GMT -5
"Do I make you randy?"
Thread over.
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Post by ryochan on Sept 1, 2009 20:58:12 GMT -5
God, just imagine Vagrant Story as done by Working Designs. "Reinforcements? I'm getting too old for this shit!" No no.. it'd be "Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements" Mind you, Vagrant Story is another game I still have yet to play
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Post by cj iwakura on Sept 1, 2009 21:04:45 GMT -5
I rather liked Working Designs, although I would have to see the original script to say whether or not their translations were acceptable. Myself and a friend translate here and there, we're not the best at it of course, but we've spent our fair share of time with lines that sound great in Japanese, but a little strange in English. Trying to make it sound accurate in English, while retaining the feel of the Japanese, can be VERY hard. Especially, as people have mentioned, with jokes or cultural references. Give this a look: www.lunar-net.com/tss/tss_diff.phpHighlights what Working Designs' version had, and the original Japanese version. They basically made the mundane interesting, but there's some other changes of note. Also, you should play Vagrant Story, like now. I replayed it recently, and it was still great. As for humor, WD games had a lot if you talked to the right people, and not always pop culture centric. "Why don't you sell me your flying cat?" "HIRO! Wipe that smirk off your face, we're going!" I loved Ruby's dialogue in general. Also, a gem from Albert Odyssey, from a random NPC upon visiting their residence: "By the way, what the heck are you doing in my house?"
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Post by wyrdwad on Sept 1, 2009 21:29:28 GMT -5
You're talking to someone who still considers the Austin Powers movies classics of comedy, and ranks them quite highly on his list of favorite movies. So yeah... I think the point you were trying to prove here didn't quite work on me. Also, this is reminding me of an early Atlus translation, which was one of the first times I really knew that Atlus was a company to watch out for... and that's Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure. Not often cited as a game with a great translation, Rhapsody had an *exceptional* translation, with a lot of character and wit. One of my favorite lines was written on a sign in the town of Whitesnow, and (after a quick Google search to find the exact wording) read as follows: "Welcome to Whitesnow, a town filled with snow. Enjoy the world of snow. (See, this is what happens when you do a direct translation!)" Word for word. Absolutely freaking brilliant. I love it when games break the fourth wall, and that one line had me in stitches for the next 20 minutes. (: -Tom
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 21:35:47 GMT -5
I think the first Austin Powers movie is a brilliant parody of the James Bond series, but the sequels were abysmal. Poop and fart jokes for the sake of being juvenile. Absolutely no humor or wit. With that in mind, any translation that features an Austin Powers reference is doomed to be both dated and maligned in my eye.
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Post by wyrdwad on Sept 1, 2009 21:38:12 GMT -5
I actually liked all three Austin Powers movies almost equally. Perhaps my sense of humor is a bit more lowbrow than yours - but either way, I found them all hilarious, and welcomed the references. (:
EDIT: That said, I will admit that the best pop-culture references in RPGs are the ones that are subtle enough to be ignored or missed when said reference is no longer popular. A prime example of this is the aforementioned "I'm On a Boat" reference in Steambot Chronicles PSP, which is something along these lines: "They lied to me! They said the ocean is a big, blue, watery road! Well it's NOT!" - clearly a reference to the Andy Samberg song, but not at all contextually out-of-place, so it's very easy to overlook if you're not familiar with the original song.
I think the same can be said about "Do I make you randy?" in Lunar (it was Lunar, right?) - although clearly an Austin Powers reference, the mere act of asking that question isn't at all contextually inappropriate, so it's a very easy reference to miss/overlook if you've been living under a rock and know nothing of the Austin Powers franchise.
The Clinton jokes? Not quite as easy to overlook! They were funny to me at the time, but they truly DO make the games' translations dated, since they reference a specific person at a specific point in time. Unlike simply quoting something, making a direct reference like that is indeed going a bit too far, IMHO, and should probably be avoided.
Which isn't to say it's not funny, and I didn't enjoy it! It's just probably not the best practice. (:
-Tom
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Post by Warchief Onyx on Sept 1, 2009 21:48:38 GMT -5
I'm with Tom on this. While I didn't grow up with their localizations, I can look back and adore and appreciate the work Working Designs did. Their translations weren't the most accurate, but their localizations were almost always spot on.
I'm really looking forward to XSEED's localization of Lunar PSP for that reason. If they can provide a more accurate translation while keeping the spirit of what made WD's localizations so special (which is what they're aiming for), we'll have a real gem on our hands.
The only thing I didn't like about WD's localizations was their need to mess with the balance of some games.
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Post by ryochan on Sept 1, 2009 22:03:09 GMT -5
cj: Those ARE interesting changes. Most seem minimal, or easily just a contextual issue. Others probably should have been looked over better. Still, quite interesting, thanks for linking it.
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Post by Garamoth on Sept 2, 2009 14:00:20 GMT -5
By the way "temptress in a teapot" really should be "tempest in a teapot"
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Sept 3, 2009 13:07:50 GMT -5
Hmm, I was relistening to the conversation, and listening again it sounds like "temptess" - my bad for not making the mental connection and correcting the transcription. On the other hand, I did let Bill read the original draft, and he was happy with his quote. But yes, by all means change it.
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Post by kobushi on Sept 7, 2009 21:50:51 GMT -5
Wow. Like I said, I am not very familiar with Working Designs, but after seeing some of those changes in the link that cj iwakura posted, I've changed my opinion. Working Designs is to Japanese video games what MXC is to Takeshi's Castle. I have no qualms about liberal translations, and I realize what a great service WD did to Western fans of Japanese rpgs in the 90s, but I would not want to play their localizations. And "leaving the village with Fulari". That's as hilarious as it is sad. That's like translating a line that says "I stepped outside and quickly left the village" into "Me and Quickly left the village." /facepalm
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