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Post by kyouki on Sept 11, 2009 9:34:33 GMT -5
I don't think he was particularly rude in criticizing her list. I think he was just trying to get some conversation/debate going, but (and I may be wrong) I don't think kitten is particularly interested in discussing her list.
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Post by ahnslaught on Sept 11, 2009 11:35:14 GMT -5
Inspiring discussion is one thing, being told you're wrong for liking what you like or don't like is another thing entirely. By telling her she's giving too much love to the Halo games when there are better FPSes out there and that MGS4 shouldn't be at the top of the list (or even on it) just because you feel that way, you're saying that her list is wrong. I hate FPSes as a general rule and I've never played MGS4 (nor do I plan to, I lost interest in the MGS games after MGS), but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell anyone that they're wrong for putting them on their personal favorites list, just because I feel differently about the games than they do. I expect the same courtesy from others when they see my list, but what I expect and what I get are two different things. This isn't exactly on the same topic, but it reminds me of an article written by Roger Ebert (can't find it right now) where he says everyone's entitled to their opinions, but there are cases where these opinions are straight up wrong, no two ways about it. He was talking about movies, obviously, but it's idiotic to take seriously someone's opinion when they tell you American Pie 2 is a better movie than something like The Godfather. Not that I'm saying that's happening here, but just to say that there are limits to how much credibility I'll give to someone's opinion if it does go too far. As for the Halo talk, I'm not the biggest fan, but I'd also agree that at least Halo belongs also for the reason that it really was one of the first console FPSes that really standardized the controls and made it actually feel good on a controller. All the same, pretty impressive work. Some time ago, I tried to keep a running list of favorite games, but it's just too hard - things change all the time, you forget a bunch of older games, etc, that listing, ranking, and having something worthwhile to say about each game is quite a task.
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Post by dire51 on Sept 11, 2009 12:15:26 GMT -5
This isn't exactly on the same topic, but it reminds me of an article written by Roger Ebert (can't find it right now) where he says everyone's entitled to their opinions, but there are cases where these opinions are straight up wrong, no two ways about it. He was talking about movies, obviously, but it's idiotic to take seriously someone's opinion when they tell you American Pie 2 is a better movie than something like The Godfather. Not that I'm saying that's happening here, but just to say that there are limits to how much credibility I'll give to someone's opinion if it does go too far. To use your example: yeah, saying that American Pie 2 is a better movie than The Godfather is, well, a crock. Nothing American Pie 2 did could ever come close to touching The Godfather, in any department. However, if someone were to say that they like American Pie 2 more than The Godfather, simply because (again, for example) they enjoy dumb comedies more than serious gangster flicks, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Look at me. I like (among other films) UHF, Wayne's World and Pee-Wee's Big Adventure more than The Godfather. I'd never go as far as to say they're better than The Godfather, but I like them more, simply because I didn't care for The Godfather. It's a classic, yes, but it's not my cup of tea. If anyone wants to tell me that somehow my preference is wrong because I like those flicks more than The Godfather, go ahead. Just don't act surprised if I tell you to shut the hell up afterwards. I like what I like, and I shouldn't be told that was I like is wrong just because it doesn't match up with what you or fifty million fans say I should.
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Post by ahnslaught on Sept 11, 2009 14:50:31 GMT -5
Well, then, I guess you and me are both on the same page - I have a soft spot for Pit Fighter, for example, but I'm never going to say it's a good game by any stretch. It's just a game I like, for some painful reason. I just have a problem with people who go on claiming shitty games are better than, well, better games, and for some reason can't or won't deal with reality.
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Post by ryochan on Sept 11, 2009 15:49:38 GMT -5
I think most of us were defending the "Personal Preference" here. Either way, it was still really fun to read, and to go "I know that one, and that one, and... hm, maybe not that one" Anyway, I myself would probably get complaints if I did a Top list, especially since I like Final Fantasy 4 a lot but dislike 7.
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Post by Justinzero on Sept 11, 2009 16:13:32 GMT -5
Yeah, while its exactly how I feel about those 2 movie examples given, I really can't see this chick picking Godfather over American Pie 2. Its all about personal preference, and in the case of Dual's list, it speaks volumes for the kind of person she is, and what kind of stuff she likes to play.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 16:19:46 GMT -5
^^^That scared the hell out of me, Justin. But yes, apologies for parroting what's been said so far, but people's personal preferences are merely their own subjective opinions. Time to bring up the ol' adage: Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and they all stink.
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Post by Smithee on Sept 11, 2009 16:21:17 GMT -5
It is like Selphie from FFVIII. I can't spell her name probably. Yeah, of course opinions are yours. Reading it again, it was a fun fun read, so it musta been my head-ache. Good job Dual!
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Post by Justinzero on Sept 11, 2009 16:32:31 GMT -5
Ha, Sotenga, believe me I had a harder time finding it on google, and I seen some much scarier images while searching. There really is too much porn on the internet.
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Post by evilakito on Sept 11, 2009 18:23:00 GMT -5
All opinions are created equal, but some opinions are more equal than others.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 18:43:02 GMT -5
Ha, Sotenga, believe me I had a harder time finding it on google, and I seen some much scarier images while searching. There really is too much porn on the internet. Porn is apparently what the Internet is for, according to Trekkie Monster. ;D
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Post by ryochan on Sept 11, 2009 20:27:06 GMT -5
Of course the internet is for porn! And Selphie is spelled right. btw, wasn't Puzzle Fighter also on the PS1? I seem to recall my brother playing it
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Post by kisai on Sept 11, 2009 20:49:10 GMT -5
Thank you for the list. I luv lists. I love going through them and trying out games that people recommend. I heartily appreciate the time you put into making it.
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Post by Smithee on Sept 11, 2009 21:06:28 GMT -5
Of course the internet is for porn! And Selphie is spelled right. btw, wasn't Puzzle Fighter also on the PS1? I seem to recall my brother playing it Thanks for letting me know (: Ahaha, I just noticed the awesome. 101. HG101. :D
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Post by justjustin on Sept 11, 2009 21:40:25 GMT -5
Okay, so I sifted through your list. I understand they're your personal Top 101, but reading a lot of the titles and skimming the descriptions... I want to criticize your writing and your method. But I want to address your choices as well. First I'll start by saying that you desperately need to play more arcade shooters! There is not one single console shoot-em-up that does anything better than one on the arcade. I can tell you love the genre, but it made me sad to see to many mediocre ones listed in place of ones that are so much better. I'd recommend playing more games by Toaplan, Irem, Cave/Raizing-- stuff like Giga Wing, Mars Matrix, X-Multiply, Image Fight, Fire Shark, Dogyuun, ESPRade, Dodonpachi, Mahou Daisakusen and others. And those are just the emulated ones. I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I got the sense you haven't played many of these according to your choices. I think you'll have some new favorite shooters if you check out MAME. And now I'll be a jerk and criticize your choices . Dishwasher: What's it doin' on there when the likes of Strider is around? Neo Contra: What about Mercs, Gundhara, Outzone or Shock Troopers? Starfox 64: Great game, yeah, but better than Panzer Dragoon Zwei/Orta? Wild Guns: Impressive translation of arcade-style to console, but there are already others like it on the arcade and are much more fun. Persona 3: Have you played 4? It's much more fun. Finally, I understand this is your list of your favorite games, but I would have liked to see a more gutsy "definitive best of..." list. It still would have been a personal point of view and been in line with your taste. I think the title "My Top 101" already signals you have questionable choices and reflects a lack of confidence. So, if it were the case that this list was about the best games it could be cut in half (at least). There are numerous choices which simply cancel out others already listed. Like, which do you like more... Shatterhand or Revenge of Shinobi? What about Ninja Gaiden II, where does it fall compared to all the other action games listed? Does Metroid II need to be mentioned when Super Metroid's there as well? And what about all the Mega Mans. Which one in your mind is most successful, most fun. Which one do you come back to most often? How about the Halos, Metal Gears and Castlevanias? The DOOMs, Shinobis and Ace Attorneys? (no this isn't going to turn into a song, here ) Not only could it be condensed, but it could be better written with more substance. My favorite this and that is dancing around true intentions, I feel, and hiding behind the protective "opinion" barrier. I don't think it's necessary. Smart people will identify that even when someone claims something is "the best" it's still an opinion. They also realize that opinions are probably the most important thing in the world. The best thing about writing is being able to chop it down until it's just perfect. It's easy to pick a favorite from a series or a genre and compare it to other games that influenced it or came close to taking the top spot. It shows being more educated and cultured. The longer the list, the more indecisive it appears, thus the less interesting it is to read. Right now it's fine the way it is. It's a list that reflects a personal opinion. Despite them being a dime a dozen yours is still unique. But, I feel it could be stronger-- trimmed, more decisive, more informative. I guess it depends on what you're aiming for, but I only mention all this because I see a potentially great piece of writing.
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