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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 4, 2011 21:00:54 GMT -5
www.hardcoregaming101.net/deathsmiles/deathsmiles.htmAnother Cave shooter series, this one more recent. The first one was released in NA last year for the 360, the second one hasn't seen release yet. I like horis over verts when it comes to shooters, so I dig this one a lot. And once you get over the OMG PEDO thing, the aesthetic is really cool. Deathsmiles II's music is actually a secret Castlevania soundtrack is disguise! Also, I am happy with this article because of the gorgeous screencaps thanks to my new HD capture card. The shots of Deathsmiles look practically emulator perfect. Deathsmiles II doesn't look great but...it doesn't look great anyway.
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Post by Shellshock on Feb 5, 2011 0:18:12 GMT -5
So is the author a member of the forum? Very nice writing.
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Post by KeeperBvK on Feb 5, 2011 2:30:22 GMT -5
Wouldn't make much sense, would it? It's "Computer Art Visual Entertainment" It's not their first 3D game, but it's their first 3D shooter and that's the interesting thing about it; the big departure.
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Post by Gendo Ikari on Feb 5, 2011 8:35:54 GMT -5
If I read without the images, I would be driven to think the game has some uber-questionable storyline or outfits when it's not the case. We've seen much worse (Otomedius anyone?). I also wonder what's so "uncomfortable" about those cosplays (oh my, that Rosa! She shows some cleavage! The scandal!). The merchandise otuside the game, on the other hand...
As for the last paragraphs of each page... May it be that Cave has just taken some lessons from Touhou? I also hope they'll get better with 3D, or keep investing in making gorgeous 2D.
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BulletMagnet
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"Who PLAYS this stuff?!"
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Post by BulletMagnet on Feb 5, 2011 22:11:07 GMT -5
Hello, this is the author of the Deathsmiles article - hopefully you guys like it for the most part. There will be at least one update to the thing once the PAL version of Deathsmiles releases, but in the meantime I'll try to address some of the concerns mentioned here: I had to open up the original document to confirm that I'd really made an error that embarrassing...yep, I did. I coulda sworn I had the correct "un-abbreviation" in there, but I musta messed it up at some point...if the boss doesn't edit that in before the front page is updated, it'll definitely be fixed shortly thereafter. I tried to give the impression that, while the subject matter might come off as creepy at first, it really isn't that big of a deal (particularly in the section immediately following the first game's character bios), but I guess it didn't come across to everyone - is there any specific section you think was laid on too thick? What I meant to say there was that the cosplayers themselves seemed a bit uncomfortable with the gig they'd landed (which, to my eyes, they were, and as I said in the article, not without ample reason), not that the outfits themselves were outrageous (at least by convention model standards). Maybe I oughta reword that? I thought of referencing the Shanghai Alice games in there, but decided against it...while the overall "moe" mindset certainly had a hand in things, I don't think Cave's ever specifically mentioned that ZUN's characters (and their popularity) have inspired them, though it is certainly within the realm of possibility. Hopefully that covers most of the points made so far, though by all means feel free to mention other stuff you notice, as I don't want this article to lack in any manner, if possible. On that note, there are a couple of other things I noticed on the current page, which will need adjusting at some point: 1) Typo around 3/4 of the way down the first page: the word "to" near the end of one paragraph was typed as "tp" instead. It was in the original document, so this one's my fault. 2) "Burning Halloween Town", if memory serves, is the "Stage A-1" music, if you want to add that in. 3) The second link to the papercraft image on the first page is actually to the papercraft from the second game, and should be linked in the section that mentions it there (I suggest the all-caps ANOTHER, heh). 4) The fourth and fifth cosplay images are from promos for the second game as well, and should probably be displayed on the second page. 5) About halfway down the second page the pseudo-word "'em" appears to have somehow become "eem" during the editing process. 6) Near the end of the second page it appears you thought my original "Deathsmiles IIIX" text was a typo, but it wasn't - that's what made the DLC voucher misprint so amusing. There's a scan of it on this page. 7) A handful of italic text and hyperlinks in the original document haven't been implemented, though I'm not sure whether you're still working on those or edited them out on purpose, heh. That's all I've seen so far, I'll let you know if I find any others. Thanks much!
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Post by Gendo Ikari on Feb 6, 2011 5:14:13 GMT -5
First off, sorry if I sounded so harsh. I was picking on the only parts of the article I didn't like, the rest is extremely exhaustive on the mechanics, and on the comparisons between the first episode and the steps back of the second - I repeat, they really need to get better with 3D graphics before attempting to use them again, so it's good that Akai Katana is back on the 2D. I still don't understand what made those cosplayers so embarassed, was it something in their Deathsmiles corner? And just as a personal curiosity: where they professional "booth babes", or cosplayers hired by Aksys for the event? There's a difference between the two categories. As for the final paragraphs of each page, they look like an eulogy to Cave as a "savior" of the genre, while the intuition of making a game not only with characters instead of ships and planes (Cave itself has made Esp.Ra.De, Guwange and Mushihimesama before), but also with strong emphasis on them, thus widening its appeal, came half a decade before Deathsmiles thanks to Touhou, and some quality doujin shooters have followed suit. Cave didn't invent anything new in that regard, but it sounds like it's the case, at least to me - and personally, since they are considered a reference point by shmup fans, I refuse to think they'd never take a look around and see what could be used to reach their public. After all, you open the article thinking that they must have made themselves such a question at some point, right?
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 6, 2011 10:20:08 GMT -5
I still don't understand what made those cosplayers so embarassed, was it something in their Deathsmiles corner?And just as a personal curiosity: where they professional "booth babes", or cosplayers hired by Aksys for the event? There's a difference between the two categories. I'm pretty sure they were booth babes, which is why they were a little weirded out. Here's the pic I took of them last year: Anyway, I fixed most of the stuff. I ended up just moving the cosplay gallery to the 2nd page since I wanted to keep them all together. I couldn't find the "tp" typo though.
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BulletMagnet
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Post by BulletMagnet on Feb 6, 2011 11:38:28 GMT -5
I tried to avoid this sort of tone, but perhaps I didn't go quite far enough...the emphasis I wanted to make was on the difficulty selector, which had rarely, if ever, been implemented to the same extent as it was here. The characters and whatnot certainly helped its immediate appeal, but didn't actually affect the way the game played - as you say, Touhou's success might have had a part in Cave's design choices here, but I tend to detect a more general shift towards winking at various fetishes. Say what you want about Touhou's characters, but they tend to mostly avoid objectification (though the fan projects are another story) - Cave already took several steps in this direction with Mushi, Ibara, and Muchi Pork (and maybe ESPGaluda too, a little) before Deathsmiles arrived, so I tend to see the loli thing as just the latest in a string of winks, as opposed to a direct (if delayed) response to ZUN. Chalk that up to another error on my part - the actual typo was "pf" instead of "of". It's at the end of the third paragraph up from the "BDSM Uber Edition" image. I see them there, though they're still on the front page too, as of the moment - presumably you're still working on that. It also seems that there's an italics marker running wild somewhere in the paragraph that mentions Manabu Namiki on the first page, as the rest of that section following it is completely italicized, though presumably you noticed that one too, heh. Speaking of which, if you want to sprinkle a few additional hyperlinks into the articles here are a few I saved: Windia's Twitter - twitter.com/deathsmiles"Official" site (?) for "Mikusmiles" - shigatake.web.infoseek.co.jp/gallery/mikusmiles/mikusmiles01.htmlYoutube video of Mikusmiles - www.youtube.com/watch?v=slUzTahqVH4BDSM Uber Edition Archive - www.aksysgames.com/2010/04/01/deathsmiles-bdsm-uber-edition/Joker JUN's official(?) site - www5.airnet.ne.jp/jokerjun/index.htmlManabu Namiki's official(?) site - namiki.cocoebiz.com/
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Post by KeeperBvK on Feb 6, 2011 15:11:54 GMT -5
Thx for the responses, BulletMagnet. Would have been nice to see some kind of comment on my remark on the whole 3D thing, though.
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BulletMagnet
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Post by BulletMagnet on Feb 6, 2011 16:17:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I coulda gone a bit more into how they hadn't taken this approach to a shooter before, but I didn't see that aspect of it as important compared to the "good God, please don't do this again until you learn it better" part of the equation, heh.
Also, in case the boss hasn't seen it yet - most of the errors mentioned earlier appear to have been fixed, but there's another rogue italic tag on the first page, seemingly in the third paragraph from the bottom.
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Post by acidonia on Feb 6, 2011 18:10:27 GMT -5
Japanese fans on XBox Live can spring for an array of themes and Gamerpics (though no other region has seen these yet, strangely enough).
This is not True both a Premium Theme and Gamerpic set is available on the European 360 market place right now though the game is not out Until Mid Febuary. Though games like Blaz Blu and Guilty Gear have no Premium Theme's and Gamerpic's on the European 360 Market place at all.
But The European version of Guilty Gear 2 on 360 the Publisher 505 Games never put up the only DLC the game had on the European Marketplace.
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BulletMagnet
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"Who PLAYS this stuff?!"
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Post by BulletMagnet on Feb 7, 2011 15:08:08 GMT -5
Ah, so there is stuff on the PAL marketplace - thanks for the tip, will fix via the post-release update.
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Post by KeeperBvK on Feb 7, 2011 15:32:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I coulda gone a bit more into how they hadn't taken this approach to a shooter before, but I didn't see that aspect of it as important compared to the "good God, please don't do this again until you learn it better" part of the equation, heh. The crucial thing is that Cave hasn't attempted 3D on a big screen ever since the early days of the PS2 (2001) until DeathSmiles II, so their last try before DS II was just at the transition when polygons stopped looking so utterly ugly for the most part (and retrospectively seen). Apart from Princess Debut on the DS they didn't really show any signs of having practiced this kind of art right until they unveiled the first ugly trailer of DS II.
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 7, 2011 15:35:37 GMT -5
Didn't Cave do the SMT Imagine online game? That was all 3D and I'm pretty sure it predated Deathsmiles II. It could've been Atlus' tech though, I guess.
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Post by KeeperBvK on Feb 7, 2011 16:26:27 GMT -5
Oh, you're right. My bad. Maybe Atlus really did provide the engine for that, but I don't know anything about it.
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