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Post by spanky on Dec 6, 2020 9:39:14 GMT -5
That's good. If I remember from the original, some of those bosses go on and on to the point where it's not really fun anymore. Did they make the leveling up more intuitive? I remember when I first played the fan translation of Seiken Densetsu 3 yeeeeears ago, I completely screwed up my party by leveling up stats that were worthless for my characters.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 9:42:14 GMT -5
And the strategic options actually increased a fair deal with things like the class system in later games (DQ3 and 6). A funny thing about Dragon Quest is that although it's inspired every other Japanese turn-based RPG, most of them ended up with much more shallow battles. Spells like Sleep or Poison are great examples; they actually work in DQ, and they can be of real use, while they're almost always entirely useless in most 8 and 16-bit RPG. That's the big thing i noticed. Status spells and buffs/debuffs were essential and extremely useful all through the game. The only other series that does this well is megaten. On other rpgs this stuff just gets ignored. I also really appreciate where there's some sort of strategy or puzzle in a turn based rpg battle system. They don't need to be particularly complicated, just enough that I need to use my brain. With regard to use of status effects, many rpgs coast on giving you a lot of combat options in general, but because the battles themselves are so basic and samey, there's no need for almost all of them. Squaresoft RPGs on SNES often felt like that for me, and it seems many enjoy this style over substance approach (or perhaps don't care much about the actual battles in the first place). It just gets boring to me very quickly. Dragon Quest still manages to make you think though, even with the latest entry (XI). It's not a hard game to be honest, and also each character has a skill tree. Battles have been designed in such a way that not only are all skill choices valid, making you feel like your own strategy is paying off, but whilst also putting you in a position where if you don't make the right choices in a battle, you will lose. It's a really impressive balance, and status effects are still very useful in s9me situations. -------- ommadawnyawn2 - who holds the rights to do a Tomba remake? Sony? I must admit the movement controls are a bit odd. I remember in one of them the analogue stick and dpad movement felt pretty different from one another too for some reason, with one being completely unwieldy, but the other clicked with a good amount of practice.
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Post by dsparil on Dec 6, 2020 10:18:36 GMT -5
That's good. If I remember from the original, some of those bosses go on and on to the point where it's not really fun anymore. Did they make the leveling up more intuitive? I remember when I first played the fan translation of Seiken Densetsu 3 yeeeeears ago, I completely screwed up my party by leveling up stats that were worthless for my characters. That was one of the things that was completely overhauled. Every stat has a series of bonuses and skills attached to it so you kinda work towards those rather than dumping your points into a stat and hoping it helps since there's always some potential benefit. Angela's spells for example are spread around the various stats. The values themselves also go much higher, but everything is rescaled to take that into account. You do eventually unlock the ability to reset the distribution too. I wouldn't say the bosses are necessarily faster to beat, but you can see where they're going to attack beforehand. In general, anything (including party attacks) that was full screen got converted to an area of effect instead.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Dec 6, 2020 13:03:00 GMT -5
That's the big thing i noticed. Status spells and buffs/debuffs were essential and extremely useful all through the game. The only other series that does this well is megaten. On other rpgs this stuff just gets ignored. I also really appreciate where there's some sort of strategy or puzzle in a turn based rpg battle system. They don't need to be particularly complicated, just enough that I need to use my brain. With regard to use of status effects, many rpgs coast on giving you a lot of combat options in general, but because the battles themselves are so basic and samey, there's no need for almost all of them. Squaresoft RPGs on SNES often felt like that for me, and it seems many enjoy this style over substance approach (or perhaps don't care much about the actual battles in the first place). It just gets boring to me very quickly. Dragon Quest still manages to make you think though, even with the latest entry (XI). It's not a hard game to be honest, and also each character has a skill tree. Battles have been designed in such a way that not only are all skill choices valid, making you feel like your own strategy is paying off, but whilst also putting you in a position where if you don't make the right choices in a battle, you will lose. It's a really impressive balance, and status effects are still very useful in s9me situations. -------- ommadawnyawn2 - who holds the rights to do a Tomba remake? Sony? I must admit the movement controls are a bit odd. I remember in one of them the analogue stick and dpad movement felt pretty different from one another too for some reason, with one being completely unwieldy, but the other clicked with a good amount of practice. Oh I would assume so, not sure though. I guess the time window where it would be viable for them is getting kinda small now. Didn't know either of them had analogue support, it's not working when emulating the second one I can tell you that. But the 2.5D gameplay is made for the d-pad anyway.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Dec 6, 2020 15:15:07 GMT -5
That's the big thing i noticed. Status spells and buffs/debuffs were essential and extremely useful all through the game. The only other series that does this well is megaten. On other rpgs this stuff just gets ignored. That's also one of the reasons I really like Etrian Odyssey. Dragon Quest II is pretty underrated I think. I found it very well designed when I played it a couple years ago. Even DQ1 had pretty well-thought out spells, though to be fair there weren't a lot.
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Post by toei on Dec 6, 2020 23:03:21 GMT -5
And the strategic options actually increased a fair deal with things like the class system in later games (DQ3 and 6). A funny thing about Dragon Quest is that although it's inspired every other Japanese turn-based RPG, most of them ended up with much more shallow battles. Spells like Sleep or Poison are great examples; they actually work in DQ, and they can be of real use, while they're almost always entirely useless in most 8 and 16-bit RPG. That's the big thing i noticed. Status spells and buffs/debuffs were essential and extremely useful all through the game. The only other series that does this well is megaten. On other rpgs this stuff just gets ignored. Buffs and debuffs were a big thing in Phantasy Star IV boss battles. Always want to cast Barrier, Deban etc There's not much point trying to paralyze or put enemies to sleep, but there's a number of instant death spells and skills that are actually well-worth using on regular enemies now and then. Finally, the fact that you have Skills with numbered uses that increase as you level up on top of the regular Techs that use MP means that you don't have to save them all up for boss battles; moves that hit all enemies for regular damage, like Airslash for example, are more useful against regular enemies. In general, though, you're right that it's that way in most 8/16-bit RPGs.
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Post by retr0gamer on Dec 7, 2020 2:52:44 GMT -5
I agree with you on phantasy star 4. Had a friend that got horribly stuck on zio because he wouldn't use buffs and debuffs!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 3:23:36 GMT -5
-------- ommadawnyawn2 - who holds the rights to do a Tomba remake? Sony? I must admit the movement controls are a bit odd. I remember in one of them the analogue stick and dpad movement felt pretty different from one another too for some reason, with one being completely unwieldy, but the other clicked with a good amount of practice. Oh I would assume so, not sure though. I guess the time window where it would be viable for them is getting kinda small now. Didn't know either of them had analogue support, it's not working when emulating the second one I can tell you that. But the 2.5D gameplay is made for the d-pad anyway. I've gone back and given them a little spin. They both support analogue. Though you'd think the d-pad controls are better like you say, it's the analogue that's superior in Tomba/Tombi. The dpad feels slippery whereas analogue gives greater precision. It's mostly noticeable when you're in the air, but that's quite a bit of the game really. I think that was what gave me a tough time with that series initially, I never thought to try the analogue for a while.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Dec 7, 2020 5:19:30 GMT -5
Interesting, I'll have to try it in the first one and see what I think. Yeah it feels a bit loose when you're falling in mid-air.
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Post by mainpatr on Dec 7, 2020 13:45:18 GMT -5
Am I the only person sick of hearing about Cyberpunk 2077? It doesn't seem that good and is extremely problematic.
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Post by dsparil on Dec 7, 2020 14:28:26 GMT -5
I don't know much about it, but I have gotten tired of seeing it promoted at the top of GOG for what feels like eons at this point. Is there something specific about it aside from what seems like poor working conditions towards the end? On a slightly related note, I'm playing Panzer Dragoon Saga right now, and two people on the development staff were literally killed from the stress. That might be the absolute worst in game development history.
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Post by spanky on Dec 7, 2020 15:20:15 GMT -5
Sounds to me it's going to be yet another one of those AAA titles that gets a ton of press, inflated reviews (though Gamespot gave it a mere 7) and then everyone forgets about it in a couple months.
It sounds kinda janky and glitchy. Playing Kingdom Come: Deliverance last year gave me a bit of an appreciation for Eurojank so I might try it out after a price drop.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 15:22:39 GMT -5
I have strong feelings about CDPR's problematic development and Cyberpunk 2077 in particular so thank you mainpatr for bringing it up. With regard to the crunch it is known to have been going in for at least 2 years. Also the same issues were present on previous projects. CDPR has also lied claiming their is no forced crunch in the past. Further to that, there's the transphobia. Using posters in the game that objectify people who are transgender in a mocking way. There is also a number of occasions of making transphobic jokes on Twitter. Polygon did a well written article on it last week that will better explain some of the issues so I'll leave a link here. I think it's important people at least know who they are buying from before making a purchasing decision. www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2020/12/4/22058784/cyberpunk-2077-marketing-cd-projekt-red-transphobia
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Post by mainpatr on Dec 7, 2020 16:32:03 GMT -5
Also I think it was keeping GOG from getting other OLD games because of stupid CP2077. It's not like this was the only FPS cyberpunk RPG either. Deus Ex,and especially Neocron say hi!
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Post by lurker on Dec 7, 2020 16:52:47 GMT -5
The whole character creation thing seemed interesting and the bustling world part.
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