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Post by mainpatr on Oct 3, 2022 11:23:04 GMT -5
I can pretty much say that Syphon Filter 3 and their RPG's are more memorable than having Kratos babysit a kid for 30 hours. The Fumito games are good too,I guess. I'm presuming you're talking about Dark Cloud/Wild Arms on the RPG front - since you know even alluding to that other one they made doesn't go down well around these parts. The thing for me on that front is that I never consider them in the top tier on the PS1/PS2, since those are both so rich in the genre. Unless we're counting their co-publishing efforts with Square, but I really don't consider those Sony games personally. For me, their RPG's are just lost in the shuffle a bit. Yes Wild Arms\Dark Cloud. And Arc the lad. Also,I miss SCEE Cambridge and Camden.
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Post by jorpho on Oct 4, 2022 0:15:12 GMT -5
Did you hear about this 95% discount on Need For Speed Heat? store.steampowered.com/app/1222680/Need_for_Speed_Heat/I am torn. On the one hand, do I really need yet another game in my backlog that I'm probably never going to play? Especially when they're probably going to just give it away for free sooner or later, if not in a bundle? And when I probably already have other driving games that I've never even touched? On the other hand... five bucks?
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Post by JoeQ on Oct 4, 2022 3:49:20 GMT -5
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Oct 4, 2022 5:55:24 GMT -5
This isn't the Sony we all loved from 1994-2011. We did? I mean, they obviously had the prominent platforms during much of this time, but I struggle to think of much I cared about from them on the software front in this period. They offer less varied software nowadays, but there's more that appeals to me lately, and that's speaking as someone who pretty much holds disdain for their 'cinematic' approach. I do find it very strange how Sony has evolved to become pretty much western-focused since the last decade or so. I wonder what Japanese gamers think of that. There's always really strong Japanese 3rd party support, but the kind of games I associate with the PS1 and 2 are completely different from PS3 and 4. There doesn't seem to be much continuation there. I suppose they were pretty much set in Japan, and this is a way to secure their position in the west. I mean, their studios are now, what, 95% western? Do they even publish much from Japan anymore? It definitely makes them a bit more interchangable with Xbox in my mind, even though they are exclusive games. But I still think stuff like Twisted Metal or Shadow of the Colossus when I think of Sony, and not Spiderman or Horizon.
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Post by excelsior on Oct 4, 2022 6:06:05 GMT -5
🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 - I'd say the proof is in the pudding. PlayStation populariyy is at an all time low in Japan. Like you say, the games being made are very different to what was present on ps1 and ps2 and there's little attempt to appeal to the Japanese audience across First and Third party PlayStation software. PlayStation titles rarely make the top ten anymore. Even XBox is gaining some ground in the region lately so it shows how little effort is being made in this market.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Oct 4, 2022 17:03:10 GMT -5
🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 - I'd say the proof is in the pudding. PlayStation populariyy is at an all time low in Japan. Like you say, the games being made are very different to what was present on ps1 and ps2 and there's little attempt to appeal to the Japanese audience across First and Third party PlayStation software. PlayStation titles rarely make the top ten anymore. Even XBox is gaining some ground in the region lately so it shows how little effort is being made in this market. Now that you mention it, I've seen those weekly sales charts and they do always feature at least 80% Switch titles. I'd assumed that since everything (aside from NSW exclusives) still comes to PS4/5, it'd just be de facto still very popular (since it does have the power advantage over NSW, and Xbox barely has a presence), but I guess I'm making the same wrong assumptions that Sony is perhaps making. Or more likely Sony doesn't care that sales are declining in Japan because the west being a bigger market makes up for it. I've seen a lot of people online suggest that a large factor is the fact that Japanese players like playing portably (I always found that to sound like a bit too simple of an explanation, but what do I know), but reading about it a bit more, I guess Sony might've gotten a bit arrogant (X and O now being swapped in Japan to be in line with the west, and stuff like that). I guess that's bound to happen. Nintendo's gotten a bit more greedy since the Switch took off, and they took their audience for granted too much going into the 32/64-bit era. I guess I never really thought about it too much, not being a PS3/4/5/P/V owner and all. I mean, I never even really realized that Sony's 1st party studios are pretty much all western now. I think it's a shame, but I'm more than a bit biased since I don't care about cinematic AAA titles. It'll be interesting to see how it develops in the long run, but I think it'd be healthier for the gaming industry if both Nintendo and Sony continue to do well in Japan.
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Post by dsparil on Oct 4, 2022 17:29:30 GMT -5
Sony also launched the PS4 in Japan last which says a lot. The Wii U fended it off nearly its whole life. The PS4 didn't overtake the Wii U in sales until literally the week the Switch was officially announced.
Edit:
Japanese players preferring portable works out in the data. The 3DS sold about 25 million systems in its lifetime versus about 3 million for the Wii U. Switch is sitting at about 25 million right now. Wii vs DS isn't as lopsided but it's still about 13 million versus 32 million.
Sony does seem to have totally given up on PlayStation in Japan. They're not breaking out official sales numbers by region anymore, and they even moved the HQ to California! Trying to find numbers just brought up a bunch of articles on how awful it's been doing there.
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Post by excelsior on Oct 4, 2022 20:49:02 GMT -5
There's enough data to show that there's a software issue and it's not a straight case of Japanese players preferring portables. For instance, the Switch Lite didn't take off as expected in the region, with Japanese players opting instead for the flexible main model, even during periods where the core Switch saw supply constrain customers didn't flock towards the Lite in huge numbers. Further Ring Fit Adventure, which realistically requires TV play was a large success in Japan and even on Sony's own platform we can see Persona thriving in comparison to blockbuster series which are more or less contracting across the board. The running commonality between these games, across first and third parties, is westernisation. Of course, plenty of these same games would see better performance if they launched on Switch, but publishers have simply chosen the west over Japan.
Sony is included in this. I wouldn't say they don't care about a decline so much as they chose a calculated strategy in targeting the west only in order to achieve much greater sales numbers. Of course, it's true that targeting Japan alone is a bit of a crapshoot and they're unlikely to strike gold with the next Momotaru Dentetsu - itself an even better argument of a software issue since it's another TV based game, but this time a non-Nintendo game from a long running series becoming a breakout multimillion seller. However, Nintendo have shown that you can appeal to both Japan and the West, whilst also achieving greater software sales and with lower budgets as well. That nobody is chasing the success of the eventual forty million seller Animal Crossing, or breakout success Splatoon is very telling of their strategy. I could point to more titles where publishers are not trying to fill the voids for - after all much of the success of a game like Animal Crossing comes from unanswered demands and entire market segments being left in the cold. This is why I will continue to praise Nintendo for targeting a variety of customers across different software, and lament most every major third party showing.
Sony's decision to target the teen to young adult male audience has worked for them, as they've successfully created and continue to create an enthusiast market where the majority of their software will serve the same player base. Because of this they can launch new IP with ease, as the real IP is their cinematic approach, and see exceptional results for games such as Horizon. Even their own strategy, however, has shown that wider appeal can be considered as Spider-Man was such a runaway success, with the character having appeal to younger audiences and women much more than any of Sony's own creations, and yes, it even sold well in Japan. Regardless, a new version of the original Horizon reflects a continuation of their strategy, as in finding new teens to sell their franchises to offering an adaptation that appeals to modern players is particularly important for continued growth, given the serialised storytelling they continue to push.
It's pretty clear from the numbers that Sony is doing well with their strategy; exceptionally well even. But that doesn't mean there isn't money left on the table. Including Japanese audiences isn't as difficult as Sony seem to make it look, just as appealing to younger, older and female players is also within their grasp. For now, however, it looks like they've left all of these markets to be filled by Nintendo. And Nintendo is taking every advantage.
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Post by retr0gamer on Oct 5, 2022 3:18:03 GMT -5
I also saw a video where someone tracked where former Sony Japan studio staff went and the vast majority were hoovered up by Nintendo and Monolith. That's a massive influx in talent for Nintendo.
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Post by dsparil on Oct 5, 2022 9:30:00 GMT -5
It’s true that software matters, but Nintendo’s portables have almost always overperformed in Japan versus North America; Nintendo counted Europe under Other until a few years ago so it’s harder to get specifics except fo the Switch.
NA to Japan in millions
GB - 44.06:32.47 (1.35:1) GBA - 41.64:16.96 (2.45:1) DS - 59.93:32.99 (1.81:1) 3DS - 26.73:25.26 (1.05:1)
NES - 34.00:19.35 (1.75:1) SNES - 23.35:17.17 (1.35:1) N64 - 20.63:5.54 (3.72:1) GC - 12.94:4.04 (3.20:1) Wii - 48.64:12.75 (3.82:2) Wii U - 6.49:3.34 (1.94:1)
(to June 30, 2022) Switch - 43.30:25.95 (1.66:1) For reference, Europe is at 28.70.
I wanted to see how the PlayStation compares too, but the regional divisions Sony uses are different than what Nintendo uses.
For pure portables, there’s a clear disproportionality although less so for the GBA. For home systems, it is a bit more complicated, but there is a very clear underperformance from the N64 to the Wii. By how much is tricky to figure out. NA certainly includes Canada except maybe the NES at launch, but it isn’t clear to me which systems actually launched in Mexico.
The Wii U and the Switch break that cycle, and I would argue it’s because of the Wii U’s lack of TV requirement (excluding a few games) and the Switch being a true hybrid. “Portable” on its own is a bit simplistic, but “doesn’t require a TV” is less succinct.
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Post by excelsior on Oct 6, 2022 3:38:07 GMT -5
dsparil - Thanks for the data. I think you might be misunderstanding me in part though. I'm not arguing that portables aren't more popular in Japan, I'm saying that putting the entirety of Sony/PlayStation's current market position down to that is not seeing the entire picture. There's enough public data to show that there's still a market for TV play in Japan, and indeed one that can support software that sells over 3 million units. That Sony is selling only a fraction of that on their own software is down to the software itself to a substantial degree. I also saw a video where someone tracked where former Sony Japan studio staff went and the vast majority were hoovered up by Nintendo and Monolith. That's a massive influx in talent for Nintendo. That's really interesting. Nintendo has shown this kind of behaviour in the past but not MonolithSoft. Their usual approach is to hire graduate students and train them on the job, but I can imagine with the amount of growth they've seen in recent years taking in staff with prior experience would be beneficial.
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Post by JDarkside on Oct 6, 2022 4:54:42 GMT -5
Really enjoying Sherlock Holmes: Chapter One.
I was a bit worried finding out it would be an open world game, but Frogware learned some lessons from making The Sinking City. There's a lot of neat little mini cases, mysteries to sate your curiosity, and really lovely sights to take in. The fast travel isn't to open so you still have to take in the map, and the game thankfully calms down when it comes to using waypoints. I actually have to check my map to keep track of where I need to go and it feels both good and very period appropriate. Major lack of the UI overload I've had with other open world games.
The core of the game is still the writing, though, a solid mixture of high stakes cases and goofy shenanigans. Even if the reward for a lot of these cases is mostly a scant amount of money for buying furniture or clothes, and you don't need that many clothes often, the story attached still makes it worth it. They even do a good job of grouping cases and mysteries, so while you're working on one, you'll most likely stumble into another. They really knew what they were doing.
If you wanna know how goofy it gets in the main cases, the climax of case two was seducing an elephant in heat with a balloon and a foghorn with options like "play submissive trumpet." Despite the more personal and serious subject matter of the main story, the game still remembers to have fun, and fun it has.
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Post by dsparil on Oct 6, 2022 8:58:35 GMT -5
dsparil - Thanks for the data. I think you might be misunderstanding me in part though. I'm not arguing that portables aren't more popular in Japan, I'm saying that putting the entirety of Sony/PlayStation's current market position down to that is not seeing the entire picture. There's enough public data to show that there's still a market for TV play in Japan, and indeed one that can support software that sells over 3 million units. That Sony is selling only a fraction of that on their own software is down to the software itself to a substantial degree. Sorry, I did misunderstand. The thing with software is that Sony has always had a western focus with what they develop themselves and with what they publish both in and out of Japan. The difference with the PS5 is that they're also doing a lot less publishing in general. For console sales in general, Sony blames supply chain issues a lot, and it is believable to a certain extent. The PS5 sales are practically a straight line globally and even more so with Japan. It's like they're allocating 10% of production to the country which is roughly what the long term percentage of sales were for Japan for PS3 and PS4. Sony is much less open with their sales numbers than Nintendo, but 10% might even be a smidge higher compared to PS4. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. The install base for PS5 is so small in absolute terms (2m) that it doesn't make sense for them to make Japanese focused games. I don't necessarily disagree with it being a software issue, but there probably isn't much they can do at this point since it's been the status quo for sixteen years now.
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Post by retr0gamer on Oct 6, 2022 9:40:18 GMT -5
dsparil - Thanks for the data. I think you might be misunderstanding me in part though. I'm not arguing that portables aren't more popular in Japan, I'm saying that putting the entirety of Sony/PlayStation's current market position down to that is not seeing the entire picture. There's enough public data to show that there's still a market for TV play in Japan, and indeed one that can support software that sells over 3 million units. That Sony is selling only a fraction of that on their own software is down to the software itself to a substantial degree. Sorry, I did misunderstand. The thing with software is that Sony has always had a western focus with what they develop themselves and with what they publish both in and out of Japan. The difference with the PS5 is that they're also doing a lot less publishing in general. For console sales in general, Sony blames supply chain issues a lot, and it is believable to a certain extent. The PS5 sales are practically a straight line globally and even more so with Japan. It's like they're allocating 10% of production to the country which is roughly what the long term percentage of sales were for Japan for PS3 and PS4. Sony is much less open with their sales numbers than Nintendo, but 10% might even be a smidge higher compared to PS4. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. The install base for PS5 is so small in absolute terms (2m) that it doesn't make sense for them to make Japanese focused games. I don't necessarily disagree that it isn't a software issue, but there probably isn't much they can do at this point since it's been the status quo for sixteen years now. I feel it's a bit of a mistake focusing on just that western gamer market. What made the PS1 and PS2 such successes was that they had such a wide appeal. You have the usual dabbler games like Fifa, Madden, some action games but it was also the best platform for the people really into their games with incredible variety. On top of that it also had broad appeal with games like Singstar, eyetoy, Buzz etc., games published and funded by Sony. From the PS3 onwards they are just narrowing their focus and just being Microsoft 2.0 while Nintendo has taken over the wide appeal demographic. As a result I found the PS3 disappointing, the PS4 one of the worst consoles I've owned (everything was on PC and most exclusives were styled after the ubisoft monogame) and now I've absolutely no intention of buying a PS5 since I have a PC. Of course sales might be doing well but it's far from the all dominating and frankly incredible machines that the PS1 and 2 were. A lot of that comes down to third party exclusives on a dominant format not bring viable anymore but Sony really should be using its studios to differentiate the PS consoles like they did with the PS1 and 2 by making games like Parappa, SotC etc, that would never come from Third Parties.
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Post by lurker on Oct 6, 2022 19:18:19 GMT -5
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