The LGBT thread (Let's keep it classy)

[Snarboo]

Jun 1, 2013 6:15:12 GMT -5 Bobinator said:

Also, isnt the Kinsey scale generally considered outdated? I dunno, I just think sexuality is way too fluid to be something that anybody can really graph person to person.

It is yes, but I posted it as an example of a system that expresses sexuality through more than a strict gay/straight binary. There are other systems that are more fluid and take gender identity into account.

[susanismyalias]

Jun 1, 2013 2:23:16 GMT -5 X-pert74 said:

I'm a transgender woman. I first started to seriously question my gender identity when I was about 14, but I didn't know where to begin back then. When I was 15 I began to identify as a crossdressing male, which is how I thought of myself for awhile. I did consider transitioning when I was about 15 or 16, but was sort of shamed/scared into not doing it, in part thanks to one forum in particular (which I won't name here), where after I came out to them, the majority of them greatly disapproved of my feeling that way. I remember worrying that I could never pass as female, which was depressing for me to think about. I never stopped completely or anything, but I did go through a period where I cut my hair shorter again (after having it long through most of high school), and somewhat resigned myself to trying to make it through life as a man. I can't keep living like that though; I've come to the conclusion that it's not who I am, and I don't really think of myself as male at all anymore.

Currently, most people IRL still think of me as male, but I'm hoping to come out at some point. When I'll do that, will depend on how daring I feel at the moment I go forward with it In the meantime, I've been growing my hair longer again, and I now dress and behave in a much more feminine manner, which I feel more comfortable doing. I'm still mostly wearing mens' t-shirts and jeans, but I hope to change that up as well At this point the main thing I'm really worried about is that I'm trying to be an actor. I've already been in a few college plays, but if I suddenly come out as female I'm worried what that might mean for the future of my acting career. I don't want to be pigeonholed into a very specific type of role because of that, so with regard to that I'm not really sure where I want to proceed at this point. When I just think about my day to day life though, I'm certain I don't want to keep living as a guy.

Ain't no one gonna judge you here

[Deleted]

If anything, this just makes your Ranma avatar make all the more sense!

[Colonel Kurtz]

Jun 1, 2013 10:37:14 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

If anything, this just makes your Ranma avatar make all the more sense!

Ha! I hadn't thought about that. X-PERT, you have a great sense of humor!

[Scylla]

Well, that explains why I could've sworn that there used to be a male icon on X-pert's account. Thought I was losing it, haha. Before I even saw the post in this topic, I noticed another post last night with the female icon and thought "Wait, X-pert is a girl?"

Anyway, personally, I've never understood why gender identity and sexuality are lumped together. Some transgender people are attracted to the same sex, some are attracted to the opposite. And with gay people, there's no questioning about one's gender and all ranges of masculinity and femininity are represented. I mean, you've got gay guys that are really flamboyant and effeminate, hyper-masculine "bear" guys, and guys in between who most people wouldn't even suspect are gay without being informed as much. And it's the same with straight people too, you've got girly girls, tomboys, "metrosexuals", macho guys, and everything in between. I just don't see gender identity and gender roles having much to do with sexuality.

[Deleted]

Humanity has an instinctual desire to categorize everything. We want to know what's "normal" and what's "abnormal", all the while praying with fingers crossed that we fall within the "normal" classifications for everything. I think it's fine for society to think it's "normal" for a man to be macho and a woman to be feminine, just so long as they don't give shit to someone for not being that way.

[Weasel]

"Normal" is just a word people use to feel better about themselves. In reality, there's no true definition of normal, because everyone is at least a little crazy somewhere along the scale.

Speaking of the scale, it really seems to me that areas like sexual preference and self-identity don't really fit into any mathematically known shape. I mean, you could throw so many variables into the mix that you'd probably end up in five or even six-dimensional figures and still not have any way to visualize it. Preference pretty much turns into a weird cloud-like entity that...I guess exists throughout time and space and hypercube and tesseract and...math bullshit. Bah. I don't want to think any harder about it, I've got a math page sitting behind me that hasn't been touched and I really dread getting to it.

...This post made absolutely no sense at all, didn't it?

[Scylla]

I can understand why people categorize other people, even if it isn't necessarily right, but I think it's sad that there aren't more people who have the confidence to say "I'm just me" instead of attempting to categorize oneself and find some group in which to "belong".

As for the pairing of non-heterosexual people with transgender people, I suspect it's mostly a matter of politics and convenience. The lesbian/gay community doesn't want anything to damage their inclusive appearance, so they take in transgender people, even if gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality, just on the basis that transgender people are a persecuted group that can't help being how they are. The transgender community, on the other hand, wants the advantage of piggybacking on a movement that's already gained some traction. The gay community has made a ton of progress in gaining acceptance over the last 10, 20 years, while transgender people aren't remotely as accepted. If the transgender community was isolated, representing only itself, I think it would have a much more difficult battle ahead of it compared to joining with gays and shouting "...and us too!" when their rights come into question.

[Weasel]

I'm about to say something that may or may not result in me getting massively punched in the face.

I've thought about it over and over again, but for some reason, I find the idea of transgenderism to be absolutely terrifying to me, and I have no idea why. I've spoken to and gotten to know a handful of people who have been at varying stages of transition from one gender to another, for many different reasons, but my reaction has always been one of fright and shyness. I'm always scared shitless that I will accidentally do or say something that will offend the people in question (I even hesitated to write "people in question" just now), to the point where I tend to just kind of slink off into the corner and never open my mouth the whole time.

Is this natural? Has anybody else felt like that? I'm not even sure that I should be posting this sort of thing, I mean, I just became a forum moderator and I have a reputation to uphold here, or something...it wouldn't do for a forum mod to get outed as some gigantic tool.

...Hell, if I've offended someone, let me know and I'll just nuke this post.

[Deleted]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to feel uneasy about something that seems outside the norm in comparison to your own experiences. So long as you don't try to actively hold those people back, it's all good.

[Scylla]

Given the state of things, I think it is natural and I can relate. It's akin to the chilling effect. Tensions are so high-strung that it's basically impossible to not offend somebody with something, even if you're walking on eggshells and trying to be perfectly respectful. Out of fear of being misunderstood and/or facing a shitstorm, a lot of people just clam up.

[Allie]

It kind of bothers me sometimes that there isn't really a 'null' or 'zero' gender identity...

Since that's really where I feel I'd belong if there was a 'scale' so to speak.

Full Disclosure : I'm 33 years old, born male, and gave up on the idea of transitioning a decent amount of time ago. I'm too old now, don't have the build for it, don't have the voice for it, and could never pass.

But I don't really feel masculine, or even close to being comfortable with being referred to by male terms, or expected to 'act like a man' at all.

Even though the one close TG friend I have considers me female, I sometimes wonder if I'm just completely fouling everything up by not sucking it up and properly "being a man", as it were.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Jun 1, 2013 16:00:58 GMT -5 Allie said:

It kind of bothers me sometimes that there isn't really a 'null' or 'zero' gender identity...

Since that's really where I feel I'd belong if there was a 'scale' so to speak.

Full Disclosure : I'm 33 years old, born male, and gave up on the idea of transitioning a decent amount of time ago. I'm too old now, don't have the build for it, don't have the voice for it, and could never pass.

But I don't really feel masculine, or even close to being comfortable with being referred to by male terms, or expected to 'act like a man' at all.

Even though the one close TG friend I have considers me female, I sometimes wonder if I'm just completely fouling everything up by not sucking it up and properly "being a man", as it were.

All I can say is that I feel you are very, very harsh on yourself. Please, don't judge yourself so coldly... Being a man is being yourself... I don't know; all I wanted to say is that your post touched me, and that I feel you should not be so hard on yourself. Que sera sera..

I just wanted to say that I am sure you are man enough as you are, having the honesty and courage to expose yourself. It's pretty damn brave if you ask me. And Jebus knows I have always been opposed to what society tries to force on us, in order to be considered a "real man/woman". Honestly it makes me really sad to hear you attack yourself? I just wanted to tell you that. Don't accuse yourself of cheating people because you are searching for answers! Sincerely I wish you would not be so hard on yourself, that's all I needed to tell you. Pardon my intrusion here. Excuse me if I'm out of line here Hikaru.

[X-pert74]

Thank you guys! I'm really happy that I can be myself here

Jun 1, 2013 14:58:34 GMT -5 Weasel said:

I'm about to say something that may or may not result in me getting massively punched in the face.

I've thought about it over and over again, but for some reason, I find the idea of transgenderism to be absolutely terrifying to me, and I have no idea why. I've spoken to and gotten to know a handful of people who have been at varying stages of transition from one gender to another, for many different reasons, but my reaction has always been one of fright and shyness. I'm always scared shitless that I will accidentally do or say something that will offend the people in question (I even hesitated to write "people in question" just now), to the point where I tend to just kind of slink off into the corner and never open my mouth the whole time.

Is this natural? Has anybody else felt like that? I'm not even sure that I should be posting this sort of thing, I mean, I just became a forum moderator and I have a reputation to uphold here, or something...it wouldn't do for a forum mod to get outed as some gigantic tool.

...Hell, if I've offended someone, let me know and I'll just nuke this post.

I've worried about the same thing myself, in the past. While it is a good idea to familiarize yourself with what things are or aren't acceptable to say, some people do attach too much importance to how exactly someone is phrasing something. If someone is using a term that isn't really accurate or accepted, that doesn't automatically mean they're intolerant; I can't really fault someone for not knowing ahead of time every acceptable or unacceptable term. Usually you can tell though through the context if someone is truly unaccepting, or if they simply haven't learned the right terminology.

Jun 1, 2013 16:00:58 GMT -5 Allie said:

It kind of bothers me sometimes that there isn't really a 'null' or 'zero' gender identity...

Since that's really where I feel I'd belong if there was a 'scale' so to speak.

Full Disclosure : I'm 33 years old, born male, and gave up on the idea of transitioning a decent amount of time ago. I'm too old now, don't have the build for it, don't have the voice for it, and could never pass.

But I don't really feel masculine, or even close to being comfortable with being referred to by male terms, or expected to 'act like a man' at all.

Even though the one close TG friend I have considers me female, I sometimes wonder if I'm just completely fouling everything up by not sucking it up and properly "being a man", as it were.

You can identify however you choose to do so, even if that doesn't involve identifying as either male or female There are people who identify as genderqueer, agender, etc. There are also people who identify as bigender or dual gender, where they sometimes feel like one or the other, or they feel like a mix of the two.

[Allie]

Jun 1, 2013 19:21:23 GMT -5 X-pert74 said:

Thank you guys! I'm really happy that I can be myself here

Jun 1, 2013 14:58:34 GMT -5 Weasel said:

I'm about to say something that may or may not result in me getting massively punched in the face.

I've thought about it over and over again, but for some reason, I find the idea of transgenderism to be absolutely terrifying to me, and I have no idea why. I've spoken to and gotten to know a handful of people who have been at varying stages of transition from one gender to another, for many different reasons, but my reaction has always been one of fright and shyness. I'm always scared shitless that I will accidentally do or say something that will offend the people in question (I even hesitated to write "people in question" just now), to the point where I tend to just kind of slink off into the corner and never open my mouth the whole time.

Is this natural? Has anybody else felt like that? I'm not even sure that I should be posting this sort of thing, I mean, I just became a forum moderator and I have a reputation to uphold here, or something...it wouldn't do for a forum mod to get outed as some gigantic tool.

...Hell, if I've offended someone, let me know and I'll just nuke this post.

I've worried about the same thing myself, in the past. While it is a good idea to familiarize yourself with what things are or aren't acceptable to say, some people do attach too much importance to how exactly someone is phrasing something. If someone is using a term that isn't really accurate or accepted, that doesn't automatically mean they're intolerant; I can't really fault someone for not knowing ahead of time every acceptable or unacceptable term. Usually you can tell though through the context if someone is truly unaccepting, or if they simply haven't learned the right terminology.

Jun 1, 2013 16:00:58 GMT -5 Allie said:

It kind of bothers me sometimes that there isn't really a 'null' or 'zero' gender identity...

Since that's really where I feel I'd belong if there was a 'scale' so to speak.

Full Disclosure : I'm 33 years old, born male, and gave up on the idea of transitioning a decent amount of time ago. I'm too old now, don't have the build for it, don't have the voice for it, and could never pass.

But I don't really feel masculine, or even close to being comfortable with being referred to by male terms, or expected to 'act like a man' at all.

Even though the one close TG friend I have considers me female, I sometimes wonder if I'm just completely fouling everything up by not sucking it up and properly "being a man", as it were.

You can identify however you choose to do so, even if that doesn't involve identifying as either male or female There are people who identify as genderqueer, agender, etc. There are also people who identify as bigender or dual gender, where they sometimes feel like one or the other, or they feel like a mix of the two.

I think the terms that most people in my life (family, local friends) would use are "irresponsible", "childish", and "refusing to grow up".