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Post by Bobinator on Jan 13, 2015 7:28:23 GMT -5
When I play single player, or against someone in the same room, I can't help myself from jumping like a madperson. But the very, very, VERY few times I've played online, I stay on the ground as if the fear of God was put into me, and I'll be executed IRL for trying to jump in the game. And I look noticeably more respectable in the process. My bad habit is doing moves even if I know they won't hit, for some reason I can't pick up on. I don't recall jumping ever being an issue for me, but it's likely that it actually is. Sadly, I never get to play fighting games with other people as often as I'd like, so I'm really not sure how good or how bad most of my habits are. Oh, by the way, Skullgirls is $3.74 on Steam at the time of this post, if you're a PC player. For that price, I'd say that it's definitely going to pick up to at least see if you like it. It goes more towards the Marvel end of things, so your experience might depend on if you like fast, flashy fighting games with easy combos. I do, so, yeah. And, as mentioned, it's got a really nice tutorial that goes over the really important stuff, if that helps. The DLC characters are also worth looking at, although I'd say a lot of them tend to be a little more complex than the standard roster.
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Post by caoslayer on Jan 13, 2015 16:42:11 GMT -5
The never jump is usually an exageration, it really means "you must not do predictable and punishable jump-ins", it is like the famous wake-up ultra, if you do something stupid often, the opponent will know that you are going to do again and be ready to punish.
I have won a lot of matches by playing the first half stupid and then changing my strategy mid match so I can abuse my opponent expectations of bad play.
Talking about that, while half a fighting game is technique, the other half are mind-games.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Jan 13, 2015 19:03:08 GMT -5
I do that all the time on accident. Like I'll go in just mashing like an idiot, and then realize, damn they know what they're doing, and take my time and play carefully.
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Post by Aoi on Mar 2, 2015 2:54:40 GMT -5
(slight resurrection, but nobody mentioned some of this) As a big fan of the genre, I cannot recommend Street Fighter II. Yeah, it's where many of us started, a classic, and actually still viable, but it's also antiquated compared to other fighters. Much of the standards, we have now, were more like glitches in SFII. So, you'd actually spend much longer learning through SFII than a modern fighter. Also, you're not going to find much for competition at your level... that final revision of SFII (super turbo) is full of "touch of death" combos and option select grabs which will very likely be used by anybody still playing the game. I can only recommend playing SFII if you want to see where it all started, or to dabble around; learn the basics elsewhere. As others have noted, it really depends what you want. Just to play one fighter and have some fun: Mortal Kombat MK9 (and X soon) is very easy to pick up and play. The game is made with new players and controller users in mind. Move inputs and basic combos are extreme simple. Also, the pool of online players will have a wide range of skill sets. MK has one huge drawback though... it doesn't play like most standard "Capcom" fighters. If you dedicate yourself to MK, you're only going to really learn MK. If you wanna have alot of fun with a small group of friends: Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 UMvC3 is extremely easy to play. It only uses four buttons (Light/Medium/Heavy/Special), and the most basic combos are 1,2,3, launch, 1,2,3, finish. Many casual players have a lot of fun just messing around a bit. Issue here is... avoid online like the plague, lol. Mahvel players are absolutely ruthless, and the barrier to compete is huge. The game starts very simple, but then you hit a mountain of skill you must surmise. Also, the basics of spacing/okizeme/yomi/framing/footsies are in the game, but pretty chaotic compared to other games. It really does boil down to making the screen as chaotic as possible, looking for one hit, then using that opportunity to kill a character in one combo, then follow that up with a mixup to kill the in-coming character, rinse, repeat. Skullgirls: I'll mention it here. As a Marvel clone, same thing. Awesome, awesome tutorials, easy to play, easy to combo, and expect to watch a combo video if you go online. If you want to learn skills to apply everywhere: Street Fighter IV and King of Fighters XIII KoF is a lot more offense and SF is more defense (if you shamefully want to boil them down). Of the two, though, I gotta recommend SFIV. It's slow, the damage is fair (you'll survive several mistakes), and the inputs are easy. Also, the chain/link system in SF is something you're gonna have to eventually learn. KoF really prefers the chain combo system. It's easy to go from SF -> KoF, not so easy to do the opposite, in my opinion. SFIV tends to have a massive player base, massive stream/video/written support, and readily available. I cannot think of a single downside to SFIV, for a beginner. If you REALLY want to learn the deep mechanics: Divekick I'm completely serious. It took me many many hours of commitment to Street Fighter to learn what Divekick can teach in a matter of minutes. When you throw execution and anxiety out the window, you can boil the game down to its deeper mechanics. As I mentioned, yomi/spacing/footsies/clock management/meter management, Divekick is brilliant. Even if you don't know what these are, you will do them after a few rounds. I've played it with absolute fighting genre newbies, and they grasped these techniques within our first play session. If you took those skills and applied them back to any of the above games, you'd be above average. It's also really fun =3. So, I'd recommend looking for a copy of Divekick, maybe a 2-pack to give to a buddy on Steam. Play a couple nights, realize how there is a legit strategy you're finding. In time, you'll see you're playing mind games with each other; doing feints, attacking when you feel your opponent is going to make a mistake, learning to read your buddy's weakness, this is all Yomi. If you like it, you need to move up to SFIV. There you learn execution and an expanding of these ideas. After that, you're free to any game in the genre. store.steampowered.com/app/244730/
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Mar 2, 2015 8:43:37 GMT -5
For 2D fighters: Stop jumping Learn anti-airing Learn combos Learn mixups Learn footsies Learn about frameadvantage and what's safe/punishable (for 3D fighters it's just combos, mixups and frameadvantage) Lol. Fantastic help. Really smashing advice. I sometimes pilot a helicopter with my brother who has his license. So here's my list: Stay level at all times Use rotation to turn, it's not a plane. Ascend and descend usin certain pedals. Don't crash. Et voila! Now go fly over the Alps. Easy! Come on, what he needs is a real tutorial. Or he will crash. Super street fighter 4 is recent-ish, beautiful, has a still active community, uses the same Fundamentals as ever, and is a fun, perfectly balanced, fun game, that is fun. He needs to find a cheap copy of SSF 4, or the arcade edition. Because that's the game with the most players, and its basics are shared by almost every 2D game.
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Post by GamerL on Mar 2, 2015 9:09:34 GMT -5
I'm pretty terrible at fighting games too, total button masher which is a shame because I like the genre and wish I was better, maybe some day I'll get the mad skillz, but I've found that I'm actually pretty good at Darkstalkers 3, I guess because what I've gleamed that one is less about combos and martial arts stuff and more about the rock, paper, scissors angle of high attacks, low attacks etc.
NOTE: this applies to only fighting against the AI of course
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Post by Bobinator on Mar 2, 2015 11:31:45 GMT -5
Darkstalkers 3/Vampire Savior (Seriously, this series was awful at having a consistent name) is a pretty great choice. It's almost like what Skullgirls would end up becoming, although that game took a lot more from Marvel than it did from VS. I'd say VS is a pretty good game to start off with because it's got a really good pacing, while not being absolutely insane like Marvel, you don't have to be really good at combos to do well, and MOST of the special moves are pretty easy to do. Plus, kung-fu werewolf.
Too bad Capcom hates the kung-fu werewolf, as opposed to generic cat girl, but I ramble.
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Post by keobas on Mar 2, 2015 19:17:42 GMT -5
HOnelsty any SNk fighting game out side of Kof series is good starting place. I second Breaker revenge and double dragon as good ones start with. Comeptition is minimal unless your use supercade/ggpo/fightcade.
I at frist was going to reccomend SF2 till I remebr Karnov revenge being similar and mostly better.so yeah Karnove revnege is another.
If must be recent fighter than DoA5LR, Skull girls. I think XRD is good one too.
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Post by Ryzuki on Mar 2, 2015 22:16:12 GMT -5
I hate to keep bringing this one up, as I suspect some might not take me seriously anymore... but BlazBlue taught me everything I know about 2D fighting, and is what made me the fighting game addict I am today. While the first game lacks a tutorial, the tutorial in the others will teach you the basics of fighting games (jumps, dash/backdash guards, abc combos, cancels etc...) while slowly moving into the mechanics of BlazBlue itself. If you're a total newbie to fighting games, it'll help you understand what you're looking at in the "commands list" and walk you through how to use moves like say a Dragon Punch.
Persona 4 Arena isn't a bad choice, however it's pretty unique, so half of what you learn won't be so helpful when playing something else. Skullgirls isn't quite as extensive and detailed as BlazBlue's tutorial, but it's a good game for a low price that can teach you what you need to know. Personally I sucked at the game, but It's worth mentioning.
I would not recommend Street Fighter however... unless you have a newbie friend to play with or a player to help walk you through. The AI opponents in I-III are pretty difficult and there is no tutorial to teach you anything, so you're just jumping right into it really.
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Post by Allie on Mar 3, 2015 8:33:35 GMT -5
I still feel like fighters have been around long enough that tutorials need to start shifting their focus to strategy, combo timing, and intermediate technique (ie : Frame Advantage, Cross-Ups, Hitconfirm). And in SF4's case, one-frame-link drills (or in SF3's case, parry drills).
Even though Tekken's canned 10-Hit combos weren't really worth doing, they had it so that when you watched it being executed by the computer in training mode, it assigned a beeping sound with the timing of where each input was supposed to be; a metronome of sorts.
I'd like to see that be an option instituted into every fighter's combo training/"mission mode".
When Capcom Classics 2 was released for the PS2, it had a series of videos detailing Super Turbo strategy, but a lot of it was over the head of a bad player. If someone took something like that, only made it interactive (focused drilling on each item after it was introduced), that would be helpful.
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Post by Aoi on Mar 3, 2015 9:05:56 GMT -5
I still like fighters have been around long enough that tutorials need to start shifting their focus to strategy, combo timing, and intermediate technique (ie : Frame Advantage, Cross-Ups, Hitconfirm). And in SF4's case, one-frame-link drills (or in SF3's case, parry drills). I agree. Skullgirls did a good job attempting to explain hit confirms and high/low mixups. It'd still need the very very basics too though. Also, it's too bad "plinking" didn't come about for SFIV until quite a bit after its release. Nobody actually does 1-2 frame links legit, we all plink in that game. Many advance techniques are actually developed after the game's been out for awhile, making it nearly impossible to implement them in a tutorial. Still, like I mentioned else-where, they ought to just craft an entire single player experience out of mastering this stuff.
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Post by Allie on Mar 3, 2015 10:33:59 GMT -5
I still like fighters have been around long enough that tutorials need to start shifting their focus to strategy, combo timing, and intermediate technique (ie : Frame Advantage, Cross-Ups, Hitconfirm). And in SF4's case, one-frame-link drills (or in SF3's case, parry drills). I agree. Skullgirls did a good job attempting to explain hit confirms and high/low mixups. It'd still need the very very basics too though. Also, it's too bad "plinking" didn't come about for SFIV until quite a bit after its release. Nobody actually does 1-2 frame links legit, we all plink in that game. Many advance techniques are actually developed after the game's been out for awhile, making it nearly impossible to implement them in a tutorial. Still, like I mentioned else-where, they ought to just craft an entire single player experience out of mastering this stuff. Which they never will, because there's no money in it. Building a game up around actually teaching someone how to play a fighting game would gain no traction in tournament scenes. And I get the feeling far too many tournament players would rage over it for so many other reasons, too. But I've been saying it for a long time, there needs to be a fighter that serves as nothing but a strategy/technique boot camp, so things that are considered basic to tournament players don't go completely over the head of poor players (especially those who don't have a "competitive community" within any reasonable proximity).
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Post by Bobinator on Mar 3, 2015 11:16:31 GMT -5
Divekick, maybe? There's no tutorial, but I hear it's surprisingly good for learning the basics.
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Post by retr0gamer on Mar 3, 2015 14:27:10 GMT -5
When I started in the fighting game scene I was directed to look at David Sirlin's tutorials on SSF2T. All the basics you will ever need there. Really combos are the last thing you need to learn and even then each character that relies on combos will have bread and butter combos that can be carried out reliably and therefore will be used the most. Crazy 1-3 frame combos are just for showing off because they aren't reliavle ( it's why you never see a good guile player attempt a long combo because of the crazy frame timing, it's not guilds speciality). I'd definitely recommend something like SF2 or 4 to start. KoF is not for newbies, the execution required to do well in that game is way too high. I've linked to The first part of David Sirlin's tutorial but you should check them all out. m.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4
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Post by Allie on Mar 3, 2015 14:46:53 GMT -5
When I started in the fighting game scene I was directed to look at David Sirlin's tutorials on SSF2T. All the basics you will ever need there. Really combos are the last thing you need to learn and even then each character that relies on combos will have bread and butter combos that can be carried out reliably and therefore will be used the most. Crazy 1-3 frame combos are just for showing off because they aren't reliavle ( it's why you never see a good guile player attempt a long combo because of the crazy frame timing, it's not guilds speciality). I'd definitely recommend something like SF2 or 4 to start. KoF is not for newbies, the execution required to do well in that game is way too high. I've linked to The first part of David Sirlin's tutorial but you should check them all out. m.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4They're honestly not that helpful, due to being completely non-interactive (obviously), just plain videos Please, no smartass "what were you expecting?" posts. I'm fully aware of what those were, I'm just pointing out that the inherent limitations of a video format make it non-helpful. If someone took something similar, and integrated it into a game's training mode, not letting you move on until you've passed a series of drills, THAT would be useful. I know this is just speaking for me personally, but I can't "gain an understanding" of things like spacing, cross-ups, "safe upon wakeup", "bread and butter", etc. just from watching videos. And I have no competitive "training partners" who live anywhere viable to play the part of the sparring partner.
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