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Post by windfisch on Nov 16, 2022 7:32:30 GMT -5
I like Blackthorne as well and played through the DOS, SNES and 32X versions - at least once each (probably more). It sits somewhere between Prince of Persia and the Lost Vikings in mechanics, both of which I love dearly. Having played it a few times - I have become aware of the flaws. As you say - the story is entire meaningless, it is all about the action. And the action gets repetitive after some time. No new items and almost no new mechanics are introduced past the beginning of the second world. The enemies get progressively tougher - faster and with more hitpoints, which balances exactly the gun upgrades you are getting. The pace is a bit sluggish. Sure you can run, but then you risk falling into deadly traps every time you switch to an unknown screen (as smooth scrolling has not been implemented). "Solid and well-designed" as you put it is very accurate. It is not excellent - it would not get the top marks in any of its classes, but it would at least pass all the exams. The DOS music is especially nice if you have a General Midi card. My favorite DOS track is the theme from the desert levels. For the SNES it is the High Tower of Sarlac theme. Lost Vikings is quite lovely, it would certainly be an interesting candidate for this thread. I'm curious, though: In what ways would you say it's similar to Blackthorne (other than coming from the same developer)?
I only had a Sounblaster Pro (I think, maybe it was a SB16). The desert track does indeed sound nicer in General Midi. That said, I still prefer the "Adlib sound" version of stage 1. I'm obviously biased, but I honestly think it's got a little more punch to it.
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Post by spanky on Nov 16, 2022 9:26:42 GMT -5
Seconding Lost Viking as a good choice for this thread. It's sequel is very good as well, but it's a super late release (1997!) and not many people have played it.
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Post by dr_st on Nov 16, 2022 9:48:27 GMT -5
Lost Vikings is quite lovely, it would certainly be an interesting candidate for this thread. I'm curious, though: In what ways would you say it's similar to Blackthorne (other than coming from the same developer)? Things that come to mind are inventory management and some of the puzzle elements (key hunting, doors that are effectively teleporters, blowing up machines with bombs to remove certain obstacles). In terms of higher order concepts - the way the scenery changes every few levels to keep the game fresh (although Vikings was much better in that sense as new environments also introduced additional mechanics), and the idea that there is only one final boss and no "boss per episode" or something. |
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Post by windfisch on Nov 16, 2022 10:29:45 GMT -5
Seconding Lost Viking as a good choice for this thread. It's sequel is very good as well, but it's a super late release (1997!) and not many people have played it. Yeah, Lost Vikings 2 is equally good. The SNES version is also the only one with handdrawn pixel art. The others (DOS, PS1, Saturn) got the DKC treatment as well. At least with this one the prerendered visuals actually look fairly decent, nowhere as bad as Blackthorne 32X. Lost Vikings is quite lovely, it would certainly be an interesting candidate for this thread. I'm curious, though: In what ways would you say it's similar to Blackthorne (other than coming from the same developer)? Things that come to mind are inventory management and some of the puzzle elements (key hunting, doors that are effectively teleporters, blowing up machines with bombs to remove certain obstacles). In terms of higher order concepts - the way the scenery changes every few levels to keep the game fresh (although Vikings was much better in that sense as new environments also introduced additional mechanics), and the idea that there is only one final boss and no "boss per episode" or something. Thanks for elaborating, those are pretty good points! I too felt that both titles were similar, beyond some superficial traits. But I never made the effort to put my finger on it. |
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Post by excelsior on Nov 16, 2022 12:17:27 GMT -5
OK, I put some time in. My opinion hasn't changed a great deal. I like the visuals and atmosphere and there's some thoughtful level design, but I find it pretty repetitive to look at with nothing especially interesting on screen. Gameplaywise I think getting the gun out and putting it away detracts from the cinematic feel and comes across as unnatural and clunky - even if the stages are designed around it appropriately. Generally, I think it's a nice enough game but it's not my cup of tea.
Rank - C
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Nov 16, 2022 15:44:57 GMT -5
Haven't played this in a while but it's a solid PoP-like puzzle platformer as well as an early example of that great sprite art style Blizzard had up until Starcraft.
It feels heavily '90s "grimdark"; I remember thinking the backwards shot move, the intro, playing as a buff native american (? it was called Blackhawk here) dude, and the music was all so cool and somehow mature at the time. Shooting the NPCs was something I would feel guilty about as a kid, it stands out as an early game in which you had to make an active moral choice and there was no slider or anything to tell you if you did the right thing (the devs probably just thought it was badass but whatever). Fighting alongside NPCs later on also stands out in my memory...
...and slowly trying to get those little scarabs in the right spots. Of course the control style can get rather frustrating and standing almost right next to an enemy and taking cover to try and time your shots before the enemy's feels kind of silly, I don't think I'd beat it without savestates nowadays but I did beat it legit back in the day after many tries against the final boss.
B
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Post by dr_st on Nov 17, 2022 3:58:26 GMT -5
Shooting the NPCs was something I would feel guilty about as a kid, it stands out as an early game in which you had to make an active moral choice and there was no slider or anything to tell you if you did the right thing (the devs probably just thought it was badass but whatever). I hated when I killed them accidentally. On screens with both enemies and NPCs I worked hard to keep the NPCs alive. Crazy... |
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Post by dsparil on Nov 17, 2022 6:34:29 GMT -5
It would have been nice if there was some kind of mechanic based around rescuing people like Abe's Oddysee would have.
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Post by excelsior on Nov 17, 2022 6:59:19 GMT -5
Wait, you guys wanted to rescue the hostages? I don't relate to you people at all....
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Post by Snake on Nov 19, 2022 11:59:59 GMT -5
Blackthorne - Rank B
This game is a mood. I agree with ommadawnyawn's feel, the grim, the dark. A style that reminds me of Full Throttle and Outer World/Out of this World. Prince of Persia controls, with a look away shotgun blast. It's been a while since I played this one, rented from the local video store. Compared to other SNES games with the gameplay scheme: Prince of Persia, Nosferatu, Out of this World, and Flashback, I like that you can actually converse with people with actual dialogue.
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Post by excelsior on Nov 21, 2022 4:50:47 GMT -5
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Post by excelsior on Nov 21, 2022 5:12:45 GMT -5
OK so Mr Nutz is surprisingly not bad. It controls well enough and no collision detection issues or anything but is fairly typical of Euro platformers in terms of level design that encourages exploration with collectables dangles in various directions. Although the game does explore some interesting environments after an initial straightforward start I think the biggest issue is a lack of any real ambition. It's just a little by the book, with other games in the genre outdoing it in terms of creating excitement. My biggest annoyance is that I didn't realise there was a run button for a while, since there isn't a real differentiation in its animation when compared to the walking one, but soon overcome.
Rank - C
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Post by dsparil on Nov 21, 2022 8:11:40 GMT -5
Since I chose it, of course I'd give this game an S. Not really, but I'd go with a B since i like it, but C is fair. It is a vanilla platformer that doesn't do anything particularly special, but it has a cuteness that goes well with a squirrel themed game. I never liked how in-your-face Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel was.
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Post by spanky on Nov 21, 2022 8:35:14 GMT -5
A SNES game I've never played! I'll fire it up on my jailbroken Super NT later this week.
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Post by excelsior on Nov 21, 2022 9:06:26 GMT -5
I never liked how in-your-face Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel was. 90's edginess clearly knew no bounds when it impacted on design of squirrel-based characters of all things. I have a recollection of Mr Nutz beginning on a TV show maze call in game that used to be a thing around the time in the UK, but I can't find anything to back that up so it could be a false memory. Not sure if they occurred elsewhere, but somebody would call in and give directions to the TV host who would fumble it and lose - "right right right right right" (host goes left) - "oh, no, you lost, what a shame!" |
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