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Post by windfisch on Nov 7, 2022 20:21:50 GMT -5
Well, first of all, those aren't my rules. Nobody can stop me from picking Super Bomberman 5. And secondly. What are you talking about! This is clearly a spin-off, not a sequel! After all, it doesn't have a number in the title, and Capcom never rereleases it, so it can't possibly be a main title. Sure, I can accept Rockman and Forte as the one Capcom ashamedly locked in the basement. And no, I can't see any resemblance to Rockman 8 whatsoever. Must be adopted, so it's not really part of the family aynway. (I'd still be curious about the official ruling on the matter.)
But discussing Super Bomberman 5 without acknowledging its direct predecessor, Lode Runner Twin: Justy to Liberty no Daibouken, is like talking about The Empire Strikes Back, while pretending A New Hope never happened. Madness.
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Post by excelsior on Nov 7, 2022 23:38:25 GMT -5
windfisch The official ruling is that those who disrespect my rules will get what they asked for.... in a manner of speaking.
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Post by spanky on Nov 8, 2022 8:26:26 GMT -5
It'd give SPO an A. It's a well made game with nice graphics, but I'm not super into boxing so that's a barrier the game can't quite overcome. My main memory of it is actually from playing it on a Virgin Atlantic flight to London which was also the last time I've travelled internationally. I don't know if Virgin Atlantic is still as good as it was back then, but that was a great experience even in economy. I think I'm even giving the game a little bump because of that. Oh man, you got to use a Nintendo Gateway System? I remember reading about those but never saw one. Being able to play SNES games on a cross country flight sounds like a dream... |
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Post by windfisch on Nov 8, 2022 9:28:29 GMT -5
windfisch The official ruling is that those who disrespect my rules will get what they asked for.... in a manner of speaking. Hmmm, we shall see what that means. Cryptic.
Super Punch Out I haven't played enough to make a qualified judgement. But I kinda like it. I love how much personality each individual character has. And it's a good thing you can remap the controls, so you can have the right punch on R or A and left one on L or B, which I find more intuitive. I have to dig a little deeper, learning how to properly play, I suppose. But it's safe to say this would at least qualify as B, maybe even A.
On a side note: One of my favourite things about Donkey Kong Jungle Beat are the Punch Out-like boss fights against the other Kongs. Those fights are less complex than the ones in Super Punch Out, but the Bongo controllers are just perfect for that playstyle, making it a highly visceral experience. No matter how well made Super Punch Out is, it cannot quite compare to that feeling. Too bad the Wii game was not bongo-controlled. Interestingly the original Street Fighter actually featured two huge pressure sensitive buttons you could pound on, not too different from the GC bongos. Ironically those controls are usually considered an evolutionary dead end, turns out they were just used for the wrong kind of game.
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Post by dsparil on Nov 8, 2022 13:04:03 GMT -5
It'd give SPO an A. It's a well made game with nice graphics, but I'm not super into boxing so that's a barrier the game can't quite overcome. My main memory of it is actually from playing it on a Virgin Atlantic flight to London which was also the last time I've travelled internationally. I don't know if Virgin Atlantic is still as good as it was back then, but that was a great experience even in economy. I think I'm even giving the game a little bump because of that. Oh man, you got to use a Nintendo Gateway System? I remember reading about those but never saw one. Being able to play SNES games on a cross country flight sounds like a dream… It was pretty nice to have on such a long flight, and there wasn't a charge for it either. I forget what else was on it except Super Bonk and SMW. I don't think the controller was what is in the Wikipedia article; that seems like it was from the hotel version from poking around. I don't remember what it looked liked, but controllers like this come up for planes:  Secret prototype Wii Remote? |
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Post by Snake on Nov 8, 2022 14:00:57 GMT -5
It was pretty nice to have on such a long flight, and there wasn't a charge for it either. I forget what else was on it except Super Bonk and SMW. I don't think the controller was what is in the Wikipedia article; that seems like it was from the hotel version from poking around. I don't remember what it looked liked, but controllers like this come up for planes: Secret prototype Wii Remote? Nice! I remembered having that controller for a Japan Airlines flight. Though I don't recall much in the way of games, beyond Tetris. |
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Post by Snake on Nov 8, 2022 14:04:45 GMT -5
Zombies Ate My Neighbors - I never really played it until the last decade. I think it'd be fun, playing with a friend. But playing solo, I couldn't get into it.
Rank C
Super Punch-Out!
Rank S
I adore this game. Every boxer has so much personality, even if they are blatantly not boxing but kicking, headbutting, or whacking you with a staff. The challenge gradient is just right between each challenger. I was so addicted to finish this game, enough to have it all memorized and beat it in one go without getting KO'd. The music, the graphics, the sound effects. One of my all-time favorites on SNES.
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Post by personman on Nov 13, 2022 14:41:58 GMT -5
Super is my favorite Punch Out. It's the most creative with the roster and it has enough little techniques to figure out lending it some depth. I know the NES game has it's tricks too and it seems people hold it in higher regard but I just don't see it beyond in the impact it had. Like this game is really difficult in the last circuit but it never gets to the point where you have to fight a guy who can just one shot you the entire match. The last guy in super is pretty crazy but not that bad. Not to mention it looks and sounds fantastic. Don't hear people mention it's audio often but come on, you just have to love the announcer's off the wall way they do the count down lol. I even think the music is pretty alright.
Best in the series I say, though I have yet to get to the Wii remake. One of my favorites on the SNES.
Giving it a S.
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Post by excelsior on Nov 14, 2022 4:57:26 GMT -5
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Post by excelsior on Nov 14, 2022 5:00:25 GMT -5
I'm going to withhold from posting about this for now. I haven't played it enough to make a judgement and I could never get to grips with these more 'realistic' style of platformers anyway. I'll try to put some time into it this week and come back with something more.
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Post by spanky on Nov 14, 2022 7:04:09 GMT -5
I have played this game...but it's been something in the neighborhood of 25 years since I've last touched it.
I recall liking the game despite not being a huge fan of the "cinematic platformer" genre. It definitely leans more towards the action side of things.
I'm not too busy this week so I'll give the game a replay so I can give it a fair assessment.
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Post by dsparil on Nov 14, 2022 9:57:10 GMT -5
I like Blackthorne although I've never actually finished it so I'll give it a B. No time limit unlike Prince of Persia and the combat is a lot less finicky than Out of This World. It's a straightforward game, but sometimes that isn't a bad thing. My one issue is that you lose all your items when hitting a level checkpoint/password. I assume the idea was to encourage using them instead of hoarding, but since it isn't obvious when that happens I always end up hoarding them anyway. It's also possible to get stuck if you use up an item like a bomb that's need to progress which also encourages hoarding instead of using items in combat.
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Post by spanky on Nov 15, 2022 15:18:37 GMT -5
Alright I gave this a whirl. I didn't get very far but I got knocked off a ladder by an enemy and found myself stuck in the floor unable to proceed. I figured that was a good stopping point.
Let it be known that I'm not a big fan of the cinematic platformer genre but this is one of the better ones. I sort of love the idea of your fantasy world refugee main character returning home with nothing but a shotgun and blasting orcs with it. I think this concept would have been sold a bit better if the enemies didn't have guns themselves. Give them bows or magic wands or something.
This game was notable in it's day for being pretty violent and brutal for a SNES game. In particular, you can straight up just execute your allied NPCs, even if they are chained up. There's no real penalty to this as they still drop any items they were going to give you. Even if you don't kill them, the game presents several scenarios where they will get killed in the crossfire regardless. Their blood was changed to green, but the way they slump over when shot, or seeing half their face blown off when a grenade hits them is surprisingly gruesome.
It has the stilted, laggy control of the genre, though it's a little more responsive than some of the other games. I still missed quite a few running jumps that I shouldn't have missed. The gunplay is very simple with a dodge move where you can disappear in the background then pop back up when your foes are vulnerable. When you die, you have to start at the beginning of each level. The levels aren't super long but I am really spoiled by modern games that have tons of checkpoints. There's nothing worse than accidentally running off a cliff when the end of the level is in sight. There's a password at the end of level as well.
It looks very good with detailed graphics and animation and the few cutscenes in the game look spectacular. I personally love any game that has enemies who laugh at you after getting a hit in. There was a 32X version of this that uses pre-rendered sprites and I think it's a good deal uglier than this version.
I do agree with Dsparil that the item system needs a bit of work. The grenades are actually quite useful in combat but you never know how many you're actually going to need to proceed through the level so you don't use them like you should.
This isn't one of my favorites but it's definitely one of the better games of it's type. It's a B.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 15, 2022 21:57:11 GMT -5
BlackthorneI have a bit of fondness for this one, due to having played the DOS version back then. It’s basically the same as on the SNES. However, both feature entirely different soundtracks (I prefer the DOS FM tracks, especially the stage 1 theme). And on DOS the game’s ruthlessness is further emphasized by blood that is visibly spilled. Heck, even the Blizzard logo bleeds. While it does take some cues from Prince of Persia, it seems to draw the most inspiration from Flashback (but naturally you play as Rambo - it's US made alright), with similar controls, menu system and gameplay elements, like green energy beam bridges. Gunfights in particular feel similar, but Blackthorne adds a fun background dodge mechanic. Throughout the adventure your health and firing rate will get upgraded a couple of times, adding a nice feeling of progression. Blackthorne is not an easy game. But for a cinematic platformer it is among the most accessible ones. Controls feel a bit snappier than in other games in the genre. There’s a whole training stage to ease newcomers in. And usually you can find sufficient health items ensuring that one doesn’t have to play perfectly. Compared to the likes of Another World and Flashback, the puzzles are usually not too hard to figure out and NPCs will give you hints (there is a benefit to not murdering them, at least not right away). A good example for the player-friendly design mentality are the dimwitted orcs, the first enemy type you will encounter. Once they land a hit on you, the will taunt you with laughter. What at first glance may seem to be mere mockery of careless players, actually turns out out to be a window of opportunity to fight back, as the orcs will be temporarily vulnerable. That way newcomers get to learn the combat without being demoralized right away. The platforming, while tight, also never gets quite as brutal as in the likes of Prince of Persia. It’s a good looking title: Sprites are well drawn and fluidly animated. The four different locations convey a convincing sense of place and are fittingly bleak. With the exception of the sparkling waterfalls, there aren’t any real eye-catchers, though. The game might’ve benefited from an additional location or two, not necessarily in terms of length, but for the sake of audio-visual variety. (The 32x version actually adds a snowy mountain area, though it inexplicably replaces the original sprites with weirdly proportioned prerendered ones. Ugh. Must’ve been the Donkey Kong Country hype.) The audio is alright, music tracks are enriched by environmental noise, though the audio quality tends to be a bit muffled. I like the energetic stage 2 theme the most. Where Blackthorne stumbles a bit is in the “cinematic” part of the equation. Sure, the intro sequence does look pretty cool. But the story never evolves past “kill the main baddie, reclaim your throne”. And why exactly would someone who’s got no issues killing his own people be considered a better alternative to the current tyrant? [At least the game is true to real world politics.] There is some world building here, which is neat but also feels half-hearted. For example, all the humans look the same and rarely have anything sophisticated to say. And wouldn’t it be nice, if you could actually unchain the slaves? Flashback and Another World manage to create richer worlds and feature more interesting story developments. Blackthorne also lacks any real memorable moments (final boss aside), like Prince of Persia’s doppelganger encounters or the various set pieces found in Another World. Nonetheless it remains a solid, well designed game. Rank: B
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Post by dr_st on Nov 16, 2022 3:56:32 GMT -5
I like Blackthorne as well and played through the DOS, SNES and 32X versions - at least once each (probably more). It sits somewhere between Prince of Persia and the Lost Vikings in mechanics, both of which I love dearly. Having played it a few times - I have become aware of the flaws. As you say - the story is entire meaningless, it is all about the action. And the action gets repetitive after some time. No new items and almost no new mechanics are introduced past the beginning of the second world. The enemies get progressively tougher - faster and with more hitpoints, which balances exactly the gun upgrades you are getting. The pace is a bit sluggish. Sure you can run, but then you risk falling into deadly traps every time you switch to an unknown screen (as smooth scrolling has not been implemented). "Solid and well-designed" as you put it is very accurate. It is not excellent - it would not get the top marks in any of its classes, but it would at least pass all the exams. The DOS music is especially nice if you have a General Midi card. My favorite DOS track is the theme from the desert levels. For the SNES it is the High Tower of Sarlac theme. |
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