Dave's Guide to Bootleg Anime

[jameseightbitstar]

revolverocelot said:

Yeah.. I don't think Bandai Entertainment, Ganeon, Manga Video or AnimeWorks are going out of business any time soon. Sorry, but the notion that buying bootleg/pirate anime, video games, movies etc. is hurting the industry is nonsense.

I never said it was hurting the industry. I said it was hurting the ARTISTS.

And if you're going to pirate anyway, why not download it instead of giving your money to some thieves who, by the way, use the money to fund other far worse criminal activities (this is not idle speculation this is FACT, and you can google it yourself to find out more).

Or how about checking anime out from the library, or renting it, or Netflixing it? You don't absolutely have to pack-rat every anime you find--there's plenty of legit ways to see it all for cheap.

admin said:

Central Park Media is almost done, if it isn't completely bankrupt, so not all anime companies are rolling in the dough.

Although, arguably most of their stuff was so bad it probably wasn't even worth pirating.

What is it with these "Well most of their stuff sucks anyway" arguements? Every time someone says anything they seem to always have to cap it off with that as if it somehow legitimizes or makes a point out of anything.

"Enix got bought out by Square. Oh well, most of Enix's stuff sucked anyway."

"Napster got sued. Oh well, it was a crappy service anyway."

"CPM is about to go bankrupt. Oh well, most of their stuff sucked anyway."

Personally I liked CPM... they're the company that brought us Project A-Ko, Golgo 13, and Blackjack, among all sorts of great underdogs that are generally unrecognized while everyone's oggling over the latest video game adaption. Not to mention, without them, we wouldn't have Slayers.

[Revolver Ocelot]

masterace said:

I have bought some HK anime bootleg sets movie back when I had dial up. I no longer buy any though since I got broadband and I realize HK translations are shitty.

I did buy bootlegs of Zeta Gundam, (I bought the official set later) Gundam X, a FX set of G-Gundam but it isn't quite perfect, Turn A Gundam but the subs are godawful, Street Fighter II Animated Movie Japanese rip, and a FX R2 rip of Macross: Do You Remember Love?

I recently bought a V-Gundam bootleg set and it's pretty good. There's Engrish and typos here and there, but other than that there really isn't any way to watch it in its full glory. And it's still entirely comprehensible (trust me, I've seen some bad ones).

I'm curious, how was that Gundam X set? And I've been considering getting a Turn A Gundam set from Animemax. Did the one you have with the horrible subs happen to have this art on its cover;



Frankly, I don't see why Bandai doesn't just fucking release all their Gundam stuff here. Gundam has been established in the US with shows like SEED and especially Wing. It's a pretty safe bet now.

It's mostly the merchandiser's fault. I buy bootlegs for two reasons and two reasons only:

A) There's no other way.
I like Gundam. But 60% of it has never been released here in spite of its popularity. Do I sit around with my thumb up my ass waiting for Bandai to possibly localize it, or do I buy a bootleg and get to see what I want when I want?

B) The shit is fucking overpriced.
$59.99 retail for Gunbuster? It's a 6 episode OVA. All the episodes together add up to little over 3 hours (well under 3 hours if you skip the intros/endings and the science lessons in between). Would you pay $60 for Braveheart or one LotR movie? No. That's fucking absurd. So why isn't it absurd for anime?

Why can I buy a 28 episode, 2 season collection of Family Guy for $39.99, but a flimsy 4-5 episode volume of an anime like Gundam SEED Destiny or Le Chevalier d'Eon costs $20 a pop? Does that come with a free blowjob? It better.

Also, the notion that all bootleg anime is crap isn't universally appliable. FX in particular just rips official DVDs. They don't use any special form of compression. The way they get 8+ episodes on one disc is because they use high density, 15-gig DVDs. I tried to make copies for a friend and they wouldn't fit on my normal size DVDs.

Frankly, with 90% of my bootleg stuff, I can't tell the difference between the bootleg quality and the quality of the official stuff. There might not even be a difference. Here's a few examples. These are screencaps I took via WinDVD:

RahXephon TV series (bootleg):


Pluralitas (RahXephon Movie, not a bootleg)


Whatever compromisation of quality there is comes from the fact that I saved them in JPG format.

[Mister K]

revolverocelot said:

I'm curious, how was that Gundam X set? And I've been considering getting a Turn A Gundam set from Animemax. Did the one you have with the horrible subs happen to have this art on its cover;

Both of my sets are by Manga International/Anime Cartoon. Gundam X's sub is completely comprehensible with a few misspellings and missing lines. My Turn A set's cover is this


You're better off downloading the fansubs of Turn-A by Hero-Legends.

[Revolver Ocelot]

Actually, I think I'll try this particular Turn A set. It's split up into two volumes, so it's probably not the same as the shitty one you have. Who'd you get your Gundam X set, do you remember? Did it come in a DVD case or a folding art box?

[jameseightbitstar]

revolverocelot said:

Frankly, I don't see why Bandai doesn't just fucking release all their Gundam stuff here. Gundam has been established in the US with shows like SEED and especially Wing. It's a pretty safe bet now.

That's what all the Yu-Gi-Oh fanboys said while clamouring for an uncut DVD release. Then they got one and its sales tanked.

It's mostly the merchandiser's fault. I buy bootlegs for two reasons and two reasons only:

A) There's no other way.
I like Gundam. But 60% of it has never been released here in spite of its popularity. Do I sit around with my thumb up my ass waiting for Bandai to possibly localize it, or do I buy a bootleg and get to see what I want when I want?

Or you can learn Japanese and use auction sites such as Yahoo Auctions Japan. Then you'd actually be learning something AND being legit.

Frankly... trust me, you don't want to own every last episode of every Gundam show ever produced. Eventually you'd get to a point where you see a crapload of bad ones that just turn you off the series for good, or at least make you more selective (happened to me several times with shows that were nowhere near as prolific or long-running).

Another low-cost option is: Get the manga and the soundtrack CDs. Often that combination is just as good as, if not better than, owning the anime. More tightly-written plotlines and being able to catch up on the story anywhere, anytime are just two of the advantages.

B) The shit is fucking overpriced.

Again though, why not just download it off a torrent site instead of buying it? Or why not just rent it?

I find it funny that nobody can answer those basic questions. Its obvious why: Everyone's just wanting to justify buying bootlegs.

Not to say I don't understand the desire to bootleg. I mean there was a time where I thought of buying every episode of Lupin the Third via HK bootlegs. And I must admit I actually DID acquire bootlegs of Rockman X and several other shows (okay, those were actually fansubs, not anything from Hong Kong).

The desire to go HK was kicked out of me when I learned that any money sent to HK funds crime organizations. I dunno about you, but I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that a drive-by shooting was funded by money I paid just to satisfy my desire to watch a cartoon. I don't see how you guys can live with that either, unless you're telling yourselves "most human life is worthless" (which I admit is probably true of Hong Kongese citizens but its still a sick belief), or you're convincing yourself that the stuff about HK Crimelords is all made up (and there's a lot of independent verification that it isn't... you might as well be saying trees don't exist).

The desire to stop bootlegging came because, well, all those downloads and fansubs really kinda opened my eyes a bit. Rockman EXE was cool for the novelty factor... until I realized it was basically Pokemon with Mega Man characters. Actually that happened with a lot of shows. I mean I had been aware of anime trends and gimmicks before, but being able to suddenly see so many shows at once kinda drive it home. Anime just stopped being special.

And honestly, half the reason anything is special in the first place is when its not easy to acquire or readily available in a form you can access at any time. Like a year ago, I found myself really wanting to see Batman the Animated Series again, and I dug into any reruns I caught on Boomerang. Then I bought the boxed sets, and suddenly the show just didn't seem as good anymore. Possession is more of a curse than a blessing sometimes.

[Mister K]

revolverocelot said:

Who'd you get your Gundam X set, do you remember? Did it come in a DVD case or a folding art box?

I got it off of Ebay. The cover has this picture It says Gundam Series at the top and After War X-Gundam on the bottom. It's a fold out box by Manga Animation Cartoon.

[Revolver Ocelot]

jameseightbitstar said:

That's what all the Yu-Gi-Oh fanboys said while clamouring for an uncut DVD release. Then they got one and its sales tanked.

So because Yu-Gi-Oh tanked, so will Gundam and everything else. Got that.

Or you can learn Japanese and use auction sites such as Yahoo Auctions Japan. Then you'd actually be learning something AND being legit.

Oh, wow. That's so easy. I can just drop half my schoolwork to learn an extremely obscure language I'll only use to enhance my dorkiness, that wont be useful anywhere else.

Frankly... trust me, you don't want to own every last episode of every Gundam show ever produced.

I've already seen just about everything Gundam and I like it. I just want to be able to watch it when I want.

Another low-cost option is: Get the manga and the soundtrack CDs. Often that combination is just as good as, if not better than, owning the anime. More tightly-written plotlines and being able to catch up on the story anywhere, anytime are just two of the advantages.

Okay, seriously. Shut the fuck up, now. We're going into the far stretches of the human imagination. Reading a manga and listening to a fucking soundtrack does not suffice for watching an anime and seeing things in full, dynamic motion and hearing the performances of the actors. If you like manga, awesome. Good for you. But manga isn't anime, just like novels aren't movies. Neither can fill the void left by the other.

Again though, why not just download it off a torrent site instead of buying it? Or why not just rent it?

Uh.. hello? Downloading it is just as illegal as buying a bootleg. One way or another, you're getting something from somebody you're not supposed to be getting it from. And, hmm, let me see.. I can watch anime on my 19" LCD monitor out of two PC speakers, or I can watch it on my DVD player in full THX 6.1 surround glory on my 50" DLP home theatre system. Hmmmm... tough choice. I'll get back to you on that one.

And I'm not sure what kind of super awesome rental places they have over where you're from, but here all we have is Blockbuster and that one place people only go to for the porn. Blockbuster only carries anime movies, and only the most mainstream of those (Miyazaki movies, Karas, Grave of the Fireflies, Akira, Ninja Scroll, etc.)

The desire to go HK was kicked out of me when I learned that any money sent to HK funds crime organizations. I dunno about you, but I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that a drive-by shooting was funded by money I paid just to satisfy my desire to watch a cartoon. I don't see how you guys can live with that either, unless you're telling yourselves "most human life is worthless" (which I admit is probably true of Hong Kongese citizens but its still a sick belief), or you're convincing yourself that the stuff about HK Crimelords is all made up (and there's a lot of independent verification that it isn't... you might as well be saying trees don't exist).

Do you even have any proof that bootleg anime is an operation backed by organize crime? Is this something you know yourself from research or is this just word of mouth? Sounds like it could be propaganda by the MPA to discourage bootlegging. I did a search on the topic and I couldn't really find any hard evidence linking bootlegging anime and organized crime. HK cinema, yes, but not anime.

And even if it does support organized crime, sorry, but I really don't care. I don't have a problem with organized crime, except when they have TV shows that end with no closure at all and Journey singing "Dont Stop Believing". Plus these guys are from Hong Kong! They're gangsters that probably know kung fu. That's awesome. If they're anything like the Axe Gang from Kung Fu Hustle, who WOULDN'T want to give them money?

[jameseightbitstar]

revolverocelot said:

jameseightbitstar said:

So because Yu-Gi-Oh tanked, so will Gundam and everything else. Got that.

Point is that fans often have unrealistic views--they think "I like it, so it will sell well." Like it or not, the suits actually DO market research into what will and won't work. Sometimes their research is wrong, but most of the time they're spot on.

Oh, wow. That's so easy. I can just drop half my schoolwork to learn an extremely obscure language I'll only use to enhance my dorkiness, that wont be useful anywhere else.

Actually, learning languages is also good for staving off alzheimers, according to studies. Besides, it impresses girls and its not really so hard to do.

Uh.. hello? Downloading it is just as illegal as buying a bootleg.

In case you haven't noticed, my issue has NOT been legality, its been the morality of giving money to criminal organizations. Nobody getting your money is better than a drug dealer getting it.

And, hmm, let me see.. I can watch anime on my 19" LCD monitor out of two PC speakers, or I can watch it on my DVD player in full THX 6.1 surround glory on my 50" DLP home theatre system. Hmmmm... tough choice. I'll get back to you on that one.

You can burn downloads to a DVD. And burns will play in a DVD player just like any other disc.

Nice try, but if you're going to resort to assholic sarcasm you need to make sure you know what you're talking about.

And I'm not sure what kind of super awesome rental places they have over where you're from, but here all we have is Blockbuster and that one place people only go to for the porn. Blockbuster only carries anime movies, and only the most mainstream of those (Miyazaki movies, Karas, Grave of the Fireflies, Akira, Ninja Scroll, etc.)

Ever heard of Netflix?

And even if it does support organized crime, sorry, but I really don't care. I don't have a problem with organized crime, except when they have TV shows that end with no closure at all and Journey singing "Dont Stop Believing". Plus these guys are from Hong Kong! They're gangsters that probably know kung fu. That's awesome. If they're anything like the Axe Gang from Kung Fu Hustle, who WOULDN'T want to give them money?

...

Seriously, this Godfather-esque glorifying of Organized Crime and idolizing of vapid brute-mentality street gangs makes sense when you're an insecure teenager, but seeing it from a guy who is only a year younger than myself is just scary.

As for proof that anime bootlegging is connected to organized crime... you yourself said you found articles linking HK film to it, and there's plenty of other articles showing how much control crime organizations have over practically ANYTHING that happens in Hong Kong, so to know all this and believe that HK Anime (which BTW is a subset of the film industry) is somehow "clean" isn't just denial, its living in your own private world.

[Revolver Ocelot]

jameseightbitstar said:

Actually, learning languages is also good for staving off alzheimers, according to studies. Besides, it impresses girls and its not really so hard to do.

Well any degree requires two consecutive semesters of a foreign language. I'm taking something that will actually be useful. And there's no way in hell Japanese is going to impress a girl. She'll just say "You sound like one of them.. dragonballs people.. go away."

Ever heard of Netflix?

Consider that in order to Netflix a whole series, I would need to pay about $50. Which is almost the cost of a cheap commercial box set.

...

Seriously, this Godfather-esque glorifying of Organized Crime and idolizing of vapid brute-mentality street gangs makes sense when you're an insecure teenager, but seeing it from a guy who is only a year younger than myself is just scary.

Yeah. I was obviously kidding there, pal. I was sort've undermining the fact that you were trying repeatedly preach a serious point to me and I kept not caring.

As for proof that anime bootlegging is connected to organized crime... you yourself said you found articles linking HK film to it, and there's plenty of other articles showing how much control crime organizations have over practically ANYTHING that happens in Hong Kong, so to know all this and believe that HK Anime (which BTW is a subset of the film industry) is somehow "clean" isn't just denial, its living in your own private world.

Yeah.. that's not "proof" by any stretch of the imagination. Cite me some resources and then I'll believe you. It's also worth noting that you seem to think bootleg anime comes exclusively from HK when MAC and fx, two of the biggest bootleg distributors in Southeast Asia, are based in Malaysia.

[ahnslaught]

Sorry to butt in, but isn't the fact that you're buying bootlegs supporting organized crime simply by way of you giving money to an organization that makes bootlegs, which is a criminal act? Maybe it's not like the Mafia - who knows, it might be, might not be - but it is an organization that commits a crime.

[vysethebold]

I don't bootleg at all, and that's my choice. If you guys want to do it, that's okay. I run by my own morals and I would be a hypocrite if others weren't allowed to do the same. However, both forms of bootlegging, physical and downloading, are essentially the same thing. If you want to hurt Hong Kong crime organizations, not buying anime from them isn't going to help. Those bootlegs are shipped all over the world, not just here. If anything needs to be done, it's with the government in Hong Kong who lets them conduct business.

[Haz]

Remember, some parts of the world have faulty copyright laws, including China and HK.

[gesutaaru]

vysethebold said:

If you want to hurt Hong Kong crime organizations, not buying anime from them isn't going to help.

It would, actually. That's not to say a single person is going to singlehandedly take down the Triad by not buying bootlegged anime, however, if no one purchased it, there'd be no profit, so no one would make it.

[Revolver Ocelot]

gesutaaru said:

It would, actually. That's not to say a single person is going to singlehandedly take down the Triad by not buying bootlegged anime, however, if no one purchased it, there'd be no profit, so no one would make it.

Yes, but you could say the same thing about just about anything bad. "If no one purchased U2 CDs, they would just go away." And if you ask me, U2 is a much worse problem than organized crime.

[vysethebold]

I'm really getting sick of this thread....I'm officially out of it and I'm not even going to check the rest of the posts.