|
|
Post by derboo on Mar 17, 2009 8:00:15 GMT -5
Most of the game types formed afterwards build on what has come before. Which is why 'what has come before' fading away is a problem - nothing to build on. Well, if we had, say, 30 modern game types which all where derived from 20 older game types (numbers are totally arbitrary and only for hypothetical means), it would nonetheless mean an increase in variety. The fact that game types you personally prefer where the ones that suffered from this doesn't make a lack of variety. And of course there's a lot of basis to build on - it's today's games. And a genre disappearing doesn't mean it's completely out of the idea pool - RPGs had become pretty much a niche Genre before revitalized by Diablo & Baldur's Gate. Point & Click Adventures have made a huge comeback during the last few years. Not a decent singleplayer TB RPG in sight save for Age of Decadence. TB has mostly made way for Pause&Play, which effectively makes it possible to play games both turn-based and realtime style. Baldur's Gate could even be set up to run automatically turn-based according to the ruleset - don't know if Dragon Age Origins will go that far, but it features Pause&Play anyway. The developers have officially recommended NOT to play it in pure real time. So at some point in history, we had two types of rpg - first person and top down view, all of them where turn-based single player. Now we have first person, third person, top down and completely free camera RPGs in real time or pause & play (and the occasional TB every few years), multiplayer, MMO, varying degrees of action based gameplay, all of which hasn't existed from the beginning. Hardly a loss of variety. Don't know Age of Wonders, and I never was into Strategy, so I can't comment on that... Where are racing games like P.O.D., Motorhead, and Carmageddon today? There's at least a modern Stunts in the form of TrackMania. Burnout? If it isn't similar, then it's another new type that hasn't existed before. |
|
|
|
Post by pkt on Mar 17, 2009 9:37:07 GMT -5
And a genre disappearing doesn't mean it's completely out of the idea pool - RPGs had become pretty much a niche Genre before revitalized by Diablo & Baldur's Gate. "RPGs" is not really what was revitalized by Diablo/BG, just a smaller niche of it. Point & Click Adventures have made a huge comeback during the last few years. Indeed. I wasn't any happier about their disappearance, though. (And still, there isn't really an adventure game that manages to surpass the classics, imho, anyway) TB has mostly made way for Pause&Play, which effectively makes it possible to play games both turn-based and realtime style. Yeah, but RTwP (what you call pause&play) is a sort of "worst of both worlds" approach. Pacing would be an obvious problem. (Example: BG with autopause set to imitate turn-based is pretty horrible) So at some point in history, we had two types of rpg - first person and top down view, all of them where turn-based single player. Now we have first person, third person, top down and completely free camera RPGs in real time or pause & play (and the occasional TB every few years), multiplayer, MMO, varying degrees of action based gameplay, all of which hasn't existed from the beginning. Hardly a loss of variety. First-person, real-time action-RPGs date back to 1992. First graphical MMORPG was in 1991, but you can go back a decade before that if you want. FF4 in 1991 had RTwP mechanics, though a bit limited, but even Baldur's Gate is more than a decade old now. (EDIT: forgot Darklands, 1992) Not exactly single-player top-down/first-person turn-based only as you would make it seem. Unless you want to go back more than 30 years, that is, but that's not what I had in mind. Burnout? If it isn't similar, then it's another new type that hasn't existed before. Uhh, which of the three would Burnout be similar to? Or would that be all three? |
|
|
|
Post by Ganelon on Mar 17, 2009 11:48:11 GMT -5
First-person, real-time action-RPGs date back to 1992. Dungeon Master (1987)? |
|
|
|
Post by derboo on Mar 17, 2009 11:53:23 GMT -5
"RPGs" is not really what was revitalized by Diablo/BG, just a smaller niche of it. As I see it (and as I argued) it's not a smaller niche, but more spread-out. Yeah, but RTwP (what you call pause&play) is a sort of "worst of both worlds" approach. Pacing would be an obvious problem. (Example: BG with autopause set to imitate turn-based is pretty horrible) I agree to disagree on that one. Though I didn't use the complete turn-based settings in BG either, I prefer "RTwP" (what's does that stand for?) with my settings over any TB or RT approach. Again, it's not a matter of less variety, nonetheless. First-person, real-time action-RPGs date back to 1992. First graphical MMORPG was in 1991, but you can go back a decade before that if you want. FF4 in 1991 had RTwP mechanics, though a bit limited, but even Baldur's Gate is more than a decade old now. (EDIT: forgot Darklands, 1992) Not exactly single-player top-down/first-person turn-based only as you would make it seem. While most of this is true, a lot of those where actually rarer back then than TB RPGs are today. FF4-8(9?) is more of a TB with time pressure system, though, fundamentally different to Pause&Play (same with many early "real time" RPGs). Unless you want to go back more than 30 years, that is, but that's not what I had in mind. Since you mentioned TB RPGs, I set the border somewhere around 96-98, since their replacement started with Diablo and was somewhat accomplished with Baldur's Gate. Uhh, which of the three would Burnout be similar to? Or would that be all three? EDIT: Carmageddon? Watched P.O.D. youtube videos, looks like a standard futuristic racing game. Doesn't even look like a good one. Motorhead is unfindable on youtube, due to some stupid band having the same name...  What makes it special? EDIT2: Confused Carmageddon with Destruction Derby. Looks like you can play Carmageddon in any GTa game... |
|
|
|
Post by Warchief Onyx on Mar 17, 2009 12:53:14 GMT -5
I assume RTwP is "Real Time with Pause?" First I've seen that acronym, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Strider on Mar 17, 2009 19:59:40 GMT -5
Now that this topic has reached nine pages (and without being locked too! I'm surprised!), I thought I'd just drop by and drop in my two cents.
DLC drives me nuts because I always feel like I'm being nickeled-and-dimed for things that in many cases seem like they should have been in the original product to begin with (Note: I am not saying this is actually the case, it's just what it feels like to me). Honestly, part of it is just that I have a certain amount of natural resistance any time you ask me to spend money at all, no matter how little it is; I react better to being offered a $10 expansion pack once than I do to being offered the same content spread out across ten $1 DLC updates.
- HC
|
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Mar 17, 2009 20:51:14 GMT -5
Hey guys, this thread sucks! I agree. I actually love Capcom. No hate here. |
|
|
|
Post by caoslayer on Mar 18, 2009 3:09:33 GMT -5
Since you mentioned TB RPGs, I set the border somewhere around 96-98, since their replacement started with Diablo and was somewhat accomplished with Baldur's Gate. Diablo is far from being a rpg... is more a watered-down recreation of rogue games or an action game with experience points and random dungeons. ---------------- By the way, if you buy all the alt costume packs of SF4 the total cost raises to 18,7$. |
|
|
|
Post by derboo on Mar 18, 2009 8:02:29 GMT -5
Diablo is far from being a rpg... is more a watered-down recreation of rogue games or an action game with experience points and random dungeons. There's no doubt about that. Nonetheless, it paved the way for games like Fallout or Baldur's Gate to be actually widely recognized, thus made the first step in heaving the RPG genre out of its tiny niche. |
|
|
|
Post by loempiavreter on Mar 18, 2009 12:04:51 GMT -5
Diablo is far from being a rpg... is more a watered-down recreation of rogue games or an action game with experience points and random dungeons. There's no doubt about that. Nonetheless, it paved the way for games like Fallout or Baldur's Gate to be actually widely recognized, thus made the first step in heaving the RPG genre out of its tiny niche. I always wondered if we shouldn't give Diablo and it's clones a new genre name (Diablo-like?)? I mean there are a dozen of clones of it (Throne of Darkness, Sacred, Titan Quest... a whole lot more). Obviously not an Roguelike nor an action rpg... |
|
|
|
Post by derboo on Mar 18, 2009 12:42:59 GMT -5
Action-Roguelike?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2009 18:24:04 GMT -5
PAC (Point And Click) RPG?
|
|
|
|
Post by kal on Mar 18, 2009 19:04:32 GMT -5
Isn't it an Isometric RPG.
|
|
|
|
Post by caoslayer on Mar 18, 2009 20:11:53 GMT -5
I always have called all the games similar to Diablo, Diablo-clone.
It is an action rpg without doubt, is not as flashy as japanese ones but have the two main requirements: action and experience points (is ironic how role playing is totally non-existent in almost every role playing game).
|
|
|
|
Post by derboo on Mar 18, 2009 21:50:09 GMT -5
Please don't write a 1000-word rant and call it an article. |
|
What makes it special?
.jpg)
