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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Jul 18, 2010 4:57:26 GMT -5
We'd certainly be interested in more Brazil coverage for the Games of the World section: www.hardcoregaming101.net/GOTW/GOTWindex.htmlAt some point I'm going to put up the massive feature I did on Tec Toy. I was lucky enough to interview the company's president via email.
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Post by jorpho on Jul 18, 2010 10:05:53 GMT -5
Surprised there was no mention of Persona 2: Innocent Sin. The Megaten community had been waiting almost a decade for that one. Wasn't there a translated script available for a very long time, that you could follow along with as you played the game in Japanese?
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Post by Ike on Jul 18, 2010 12:17:35 GMT -5
Yes, it's called the Oracle of Maiya, but the translation patch was a pretty big event.
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Post by kimimi on Jul 20, 2010 6:45:18 GMT -5
Just have a read through again and this line stood out -
I honestly don't think anyone cared that it was a translated Chinese game(even the translators), as the first line on BeggarPrince.com is "Beggar Prince: The new role playing adventure game for Sega Genesis..." and on SuperFighterTeam is "Welcome and thank you for visiting the online home of Super Fighter Team, the world's most dedicated provider of brand new, commercially produced games for classic video game systems.".
I may be wrong, but the idea does not appear to be to show the world what Chinese development teams can do but to simply put out saleable titles in a market that'll buy just about anything simply for the novelty factor of having a new release.
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Jul 20, 2010 12:16:36 GMT -5
From interviews I've read with Brandon Cobb, he only has an interest in working with Chinese games. Actually, I did have a quote from him but edited it out at the last moment since I'd emailed him so long ago i wasn't sure how relevant it was, I might put it back. Plus there was an interview in PiQ where Cobb basically said that Chinese games excite him a lot more than Japanese ones. My feeling was that his whole modus operandi was: Chinese games are really cool, I really like them, let's see if we can make a commercial venture of them.
The fact that he's said this in interviews but downplays it on his websites is most curious!
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Post by kimimi on Jul 20, 2010 12:28:11 GMT -5
It is odd, although looking at it as a business saying "Hey look! Brand new MD game for sale!" is more exciting to most people than "Hey look! Old Chinese homebrew RPG translated!". I think it's a real shame that even when we do finally see Chinese games with proper English releases the origin is left as barely half a sentence halfway down the page. People may currently not be interested in Chinese games but if you don't tell them when they are playing them how will they ever learn to care?
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Post by Pitchfork on Jul 24, 2010 1:33:49 GMT -5
Has anybody tried out the Breath of Fire 2 retranslation patch? I'm not far enough into the game to give a full evaluation of it, but so far it's doing precisely what it was supposed to: making Breath of Fire 2 playable in English.
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Post by Scylla on Aug 15, 2010 19:21:47 GMT -5
This was a really interesting read.
First off, I should say that I'm inherently biased against fan translations. Of all of the gaming-related online communities, I think those surrounding emulation and fan translating are the most despicable of the bunch, filled with lowlifes and massive egos. The article makes mention of this, but I think it needs to be emphasized even more here. The article suggests as if things are much better now, but I don't buy that for an instant.
The problem with fan translation is that there are usually too many hands stirring the pot. Even if you have a respectable translator/editor doing a game justice keeping the text faithful while also natural, you'll have some dumbass, immature teenager wanting to leave his thumbprint on the game, ruining the job that's been done (if the original work wasn't jacked to begin with). Then you end up with gross splashscreens, replaced credits, and text that never existed in the original, usually foul-mouthed and/or perverted. The article makes mention of all the people that have left the scene, but it's definitely not solely because of people getting older and losing interest or not having the time. There are too many quality workers that the fan translation scene sorely needs like Ian Kelley who left the scene because the punks ruin it.
Fan translators need to learn that it isn't all about them. Just because they're involved in a patch doesn't mean its THEIR game. Show some respect to the developers for crying out loud. You wouldn't have a game to patch at all if not for them. I can understand fixing some bugs, but layoff the bullshit "personal touches". Really, I think age is a big factor here. Most people involved in the scene are too young for their own good. While that's great in terms of enthusiasm and free time, it doesn't bode well for those who care about the quality of patches.
And then there are the fans. They're probably even younger, and they're probably doubly ungrateful compared to kids that simply emulate US games. The line about charging for a patched game incurring their wrath is telling. I could understand if someone is bothered by fan translators selling a game they don't have the rights to, but it's never about that. These ingrates just want everything for free and FAST.
And then if the emulation or patch screws up anything in the game who gets the blame? The original developers. This is what my beef with fan translation really comes down to. There are so many people obsessed with fan translations, whether they make them or use them, that haven't the foggiest idea of what it's like to actually buy and play a game in Japanese. As someone who does import extensively, it makes me sick how these fan translation people perpetuate so much false information, and, unfortunately, this article commits the same crime.
Besides blaming emulation flaws on the real games, so often I hear this sentiment that it's IMPOSSIBLE to play Japanese games without knowing the language, which is nothing but baloney. I'm not just referring to games light on Japanese either. I know almost no Japanese, and I've played plenty of games that are very heavy on the Japanese text. I mean, if you've played a few Japanese RPGs in English, there's not much stopping you from playing in Japanese since most follow the same formula. Explore thoroughly, talk to everybody, you know the drill. And then once I prove these people wrong when they claim how difficult it is to play these games, they suggest I can't possibly "fully enjoy" the games. Even when I say that some Japanese-heavy games are among my favorites ever? Gimme a break. We're not talking visual novels here. The story is just as much visual (and aural) as textual, and for those that want a little more, plenty of games have FAQs that explain the story, if not translate every line. And fan translation people conveniently ignore the often-stated fact that much of these games is ALREADY in English, and all it takes is memorizing a small alphabet-like katakana chart. Unless they want to suggest that something akin to learning their ABCs in kindergarten is too hard for them.
My point is that the fan translation scene does a disservice to those in the importing scene, steering newcomers away from giving the actual games a chance, which is especially damaging in the case of games that have no patches but absolutely deserve to be played right now in Japanese (Marvelous, I'm looking at you).
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Post by kimimi on Aug 17, 2010 0:19:17 GMT -5
I think there are a *lot* of very broad generalisations in your post - it's natural that the most obnoxious people are the most vocal, but there are a lot of people out there translating games because they want other gamers to enjoy them and a lot of gamers who are genuinely grateful for the chance to play something in a language they can read.
I also disagree with the sentiment that it is possible to fully enjoy games in a language you can't read. Of course talking to everyone twice and going everywhere possible will get you through the game, but they aren't designed to be played like that - more than likely the previous event will have followed through to the next location, and there'll be some dialogue along the lines of "HEY GUYZ! Theres a strange cave just south of here!". It's like saying you can complete an adventure game just by trying every item in every combination on every part of the scenery - it'll work, but it's really not the way the game was meant to be played and you're missing out on a whole layer of design.
Then there's a lot of fine detail that you (generic "you", I don't know about you personally) simply aren't even aware that you're missing. Take Sora no Kiseki for example; playing through the game "blind" you'll know who the "baddies" are, but you'll have no idea what their motivations are. Not to mention all the wonderful bits of world-building info you find from NPCs too. There's a reason why these games have words and pictures, and it's because the words are important.
Fan translations are a massive boon to the import scene - exposing people to games they would otherwise not understand (and possibly not even know existed) and then going "There's even more where that came from!" is nothing but encouraging. It isn't reasonable to expect someone to drop $60 on an import game they've never heard of when they can't even read the title, so generating awareness and having people discover new things and broadening their horizons from a safe starting point is A Good Thing.
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Post by Atma on Aug 17, 2010 0:49:58 GMT -5
I think there are a *lot* of very broad generalisations in your post - it's natural that the most obnoxious people are the most vocal, but there are a lot of people out there translating games because they want other gamers to enjoy them and a lot of gamers who are genuinely grateful for the chance to play something in a language they can read. I also disagree with the sentiment that it is possible to fully enjoy games in a language you can't read. Of course talking to everyone twice and going everywhere possible will get you through the game, but they aren't designed to be played like that - more than likely the previous event will have followed through to the next location, and there'll be some dialogue along the lines of "HEY GUYZ! Theres a strange cave just south of here!". It's like saying you can complete an adventure game just by trying every item in every combination on every part of the scenery - it'll work, but it's really not the way the game was meant to be played and you're missing out on a whole layer of design. Then there's a lot of fine detail that you (generic "you", I don't know about you personally) simply aren't even aware that you're missing. Take Sora no Kiseki for example; playing through the game "blind" you'll know who the "baddies" are, but you'll have no idea what their motivations are. Not to mention all the wonderful bits of world-building info you find from NPCs too. There's a reason why these games have words and pictures, and it's because the words are important. Fan translations are a massive boon to the import scene - exposing people to games they would otherwise not understand (and possibly not even know existed) and then going "There's even more where that came from!" is nothing but encouraging. It isn't reasonable to expect someone to drop $60 on an import game they've never heard of when they can't even read the title, so generating awareness and having people discover new things and broadening their horizons from a safe starting point is A Good Thing. I was going to type out something very similar to this, but you worded it far, far better than I could on this matter, and more polite than I would have. So I'm just gonna be lame and say quoted for truth.
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Aug 19, 2010 6:24:04 GMT -5
Thanks Kimimi, nicely worded.
I'm glad this article affected you, Succubus, enough to write such a long reply - which I read in whole.
But I'm going to take the polar opposite view to you, despite agreeing with several points. Yeah, there are a lot of jackasses (some of which I have an extreme disliking for but will not name), but speaking with people in the community, they say things have never been smoother and more jovial than now. And checking the forums and projects, I'd agree. I don't want to keep bringing up old wounds, and actually considered removing what's there already. The best thing is to bury old grudges, smooth things over, and get on with it.
I have a very sincere love for the fan-translation community, and actually regard them as heroes of gaming, existing in my mind in an even more halloed placed than people who make unreleased games available to play.
They fact they are willing to sacrifice time and effort so I can experience a game in my native language means I will queue patiently, put up with their egos and translation liberties, and afterwards I'll say thanks and give them a big hug for the effort.
I'm a huge importer, always have been. I finished Policenauts on the Saturn, back in the day. I've played through quite a few JRPGs in Japanese, and I even did a couple of guides/translation notes for them. I've recently played through KENZAN on PS3 and regard it as a phenomenal experience - I even put a TXT FAQ on my DS so I could sit and read the FAQ while playing.
But you know what? In every case I can say I would have enjoyed all of them more in English, despite knowing rudimentary Japanese (both kanas, basic kanji). I'm about start playing War of the Dead on PCE, and while I can work out most of what's being said, I can't help but yearn for a translation, because nothing compares to your mother tongue. And Shadowrun on the Sega CD? I got a quarter way in and decided that if I can't play it in English, I don't want to play it. I bought in Tokyo not long after its release, and it still sits on my shelf.
There have been some tremendous labours of love in the fan-translation scene, with work which occasionally surpasses what commercial publishers put out, and for this the community - warts and all - will forever have my respect.
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Post by Ike on Aug 19, 2010 9:22:23 GMT -5
Not to mention the great amount of work that many fan translators accomplish gets reflected in the professional scene. The guy who translated Ys: Oath in Felghana was approached by XSEED, who wanted to buy out his fan translation for the official release. Since so much of the work had already been done, we're going to be seeing the PSP version of the game a lot sooner than we otherwise would.
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Post by ReyVGM on Aug 20, 2010 10:39:17 GMT -5
I hang around the romhacking boards a lot (and even participate in beta testing games) and I don't see those "massive egos" you mention.
Sure, that might have been true once, but not anymore. The people left are now older, with families and jobs and from what I've seen, no egos are involved.
Of course, those people Succubus is referring too might have been all those anime kiddies that wanted those Dragon Ball and other anime games translated and decided to do them on their own sloppy teenage way. Replacing and removing stuff as they saw fit.
Some respectable groups still replace credits with their own, which pisses me off, but that has become less and less of an issue.
But, if you notice, most of those sloppy projects are old. VERY OLD. The old guys left are doing great work and the new kiddies usually don't care about the old stuff.
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