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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 16:42:28 GMT -5
Honestly, the Gamecube seemed like Nintendo was attempting exactly this. It was just as powerful as the other two systems out at the time, and it had some of the most mature and violent games of any console that generation (see: Killer7, RE4). For whatever reason, it just failed to pick up steam with developers or gamers. The whole failure of the GC also lead directly to the Wii, and really, can you blame Nintendo for not wanting to compete this gen? It didn't really seem that way to me. They screwed themselves over for the second generation in a row by choosing a format that delivered half the size of the competition. I knew a few people who swore the Gamecube off after finding out they had to switch discs whenever they moved on to the next hole on Tiger Woods. Granted, I never saw a single pirate copy of a Gamecube game (though I'm sure they existed). Can't say that was worth what Nintendo sacrificed in the process, though. |
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Post by TheGunheart on Apr 28, 2011 16:43:40 GMT -5
Now, as I've said before, I'm not quite sure what this thing about wanting Nintendo to ditch the "family friendly" status is about. You've got two other consoles that cater to your needs, and one that does it's own thing. Is it really so important to have all three consoles be geared towards the same market?
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Post by X-pert74 on Apr 28, 2011 16:47:00 GMT -5
Hmm. Not quite sure what you mean by that. Nintendo has built up its reputation over the past 30 years as the "family" company. The N64, Gamecube and Wii, in particular, have all been seen as the "little brother" machine in comparison to their more "grown up" competitors. Nintendo needs to stop dicking around in the shallow end of the pool and make a machine that's at least as strong as the competition, while also ditching the family-centric approach. True, the Wii worked out for them for a while, but they're getting their asses handed to them, now that the fad has worn off. Of course, I know they'll never change how they operate, but a man can dream. I mean, the majority of Wii games they've released are the same kind they've always made. They still have Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Battalion Wars, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Wario, etc. If you feel that the N64 and Gamecube were targeting younger audiences as well though, then that explains something. Compared to those systems, Wii has pretty much followed in the same footsteps, so that makes sense. Personally though, Nintendo still has games that interest me; it's just that most of their more unique games don't come out in America, probably because their North American branch is too chickenshit to take a chance on any of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 16:47:03 GMT -5
It is if Nintendo is ever going to be on even-footing with said competition. I'm not saying they need to not make family-friendly games themselves. Or that they shouldn't come up with unique approaches to gaming (waggle, 3D). They should just provide an environment where all types of games can thrive, not just first-party family games.
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Post by Snarboo on Apr 28, 2011 16:47:42 GMT -5
It didn't really seem that way to me. They screwed themselves over for the second generation in a row by choosing a format that delivered half the size of the competition. I knew a few people who swore the Gamecube off after finding out they had to switch discs whenever they moved on to the next hole on Tiger Woods. Granted, I never saw a single pirate copy of a Gamecube game (though I'm sure they existed). Can't say that was worth what Nintendo sacrificed in the process, though. Yeah I was just thinking about that after my post. The proprietary disc format basically screwed them out of DVD playback, which was a big feature last gen, not to mention the compression needed to get a typical game to fit on a mini disc. I remember a lot of Gamecube games having butchered sound. Didn't help that Nintendo's first party games were generally vastly better than most third party ones, but that's not really Nintendo's fault. Edit: Edited for context. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 16:50:26 GMT -5
Personally though, Nintendo still has games that interest me; it's just that most of their more unique games don't come out in America, probably because their North American branch is too chickenshit to take a chance on any of them. They still make some games that interest me, but the majority of them don't. Over the years, I've come to play mainly for story. Nintendo releases are not known for their gripping plotlines and deep characters. |
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Post by Snarboo on Apr 28, 2011 16:51:41 GMT -5
I've stopped playing games for their stories after such beauties as Gears of War and Modern Warfare 2. Hell, even before then.  It's amazing to me that storytelling in general really hasn't gotten better, it's just gotten more ubiquitous. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 16:57:48 GMT -5
I've stopped playing games for their stories after such beauties as Gears of War and Modern Warfare 2. Hell, even before then. It's amazing to me that storytelling in general really hasn't gotten better, it's just gotten more ubiquitous. True enough. I guess I see it as being similar to comic books and novels. It usually feels like there are more shitty ones than good ones, but the search never ends. |
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Post by Feynman on Apr 28, 2011 17:12:09 GMT -5
It is if Nintendo is ever going to be on even-footing with said competition. I'm not saying they need to not make family-friendly games themselves. Or that they shouldn't come up with unique approaches to gaming (waggle, 3D). They should just provide an environment where all types of games can thrive, not just first-party family games. This is my biggest problem with Nintendo. Their first-party software is consistently great, but they make things a real pain in the ass for third-party developers. In the N64 era, they made things a pain in the ass by refusing to switch to the superior CD medium. CD storage was obviously going to become standard, and insisting on bulky cartridges with inferior storage capacity was insane. Why would a developer make a game for the N64 when they could take advantage of the cheaper, higher-capcity CD medium? The Gamecube era played out pretty much the same way. They finally moved on to discs, but they insisted on using proprietary discs with inferior storage capacity. Given that the developer push at the time was for longer, more graphically pleasing games, the decision to use a format with limited storage capacity was essentially a repeat of the N64 years. Furthermore, the sub-par design of the Gamecube controller after the SNES and PSX basically standardized the controller format was just bull-headed foolishness. Quantity of third-party software suffered greatly during the N64 and Gamecube eras as a result, as the PlayStation, PS2, and Xbox were simply much more attractive for developers. With the Wii, Nintendo solved the quantity problem. They finally provided adequate storage space (relative to the system's specs), and the lower specs of the Wii relative to it's peers combined with the novelty of motion controls made it a very attractive platform for developers. Unfortunately, it's attractive mostly as a platform for shovelware. While you could place at least some blame on the lower hardware specs, I feel the nonstandard control scheme is the big offender here, because the Wii Controller isn't very well-suited to standard game design, and it is very, very easy to make motion controls bad, yet very hard to make them good. While there is a classic controller, it isn't packaged with the Wii (maybe it is nowadays, but it certainly wasn't when I bought the system), and it isn't attractive for developers to design games based around a controller that many system owners may not even have. We've got a new Nintendo system on the horizon now, and again it seems to utilize some kind of crazy-ass nonstandard controller. If Nintendo is smart, they should make some kind of classic controller that conforms to the standards set by the SNES, PSX, and Xbox, and then package that controller with the goddamn system in addition to whatever wild control scheme they have cooked up for the Wii 2. By ensuring that every system owner has a standard controller type as an option, it will make it easier and more attractive for third-party developers to design more standard games for the system, instead of the over-reliance on gimmicks that the Wii suffers from. Note the Nintendo DS: it has touchscreen controls, but those are on top of a standard controller interface, which has allowed developers who don't want to base their games around touchscreen control to do exactly that. |
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Post by Snarboo on Apr 28, 2011 17:21:33 GMT -5
Rumor has it that the Wii 2's controller is more your traditional dual analog setup, just with a touchscreen. However, I've also seen mockups for a "tablet" style controller that looks like the bottom half of a 3DS and supposedly that mockup is the closest to the "real deal".
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Post by clubamerica on Apr 28, 2011 17:30:19 GMT -5
Note the Nintendo DS: it has touchscreen controls, but those are on top of a standard controller interface, which has allowed developers who don't want to base their games around touchscreen control to do exactly that. Pretty much. If you have an odd controller then you'll be the only one making games for it. It was nice that Nintendo was trying out motion controls and paved the way for better motion control ideas along with drawing attention to it (see playstation move and xbox kinect), but they were foolish to expect every developer to conform to them. You can have as crazy a control scheme as you want, as long as you have it on top of a standard control scheme. And yea, I don't see why Nintendo holds fast to having inferior processing technology. You can't tell me they don't have the money to make a better system. This is all coming from a nintendo fan. |
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Post by X-pert74 on Apr 29, 2011 0:54:00 GMT -5
The mock-ups of what's basically a dual-analog controller worry me. I hope the Wiimote/Nunchuck-style control scheme doesn't get entirely phased out, because it's one of my favorite control setups ever, and I feel it's incredibly under-utilized.
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seethoven
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Post by seethoven on Apr 29, 2011 7:53:34 GMT -5
cite just one source who agrees with this bullochs, or fail.
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Post by hidetoshidecide on Apr 29, 2011 8:17:19 GMT -5
cite just one source who agrees with this bullochs, or fail. Teh failz hang in the balance, Feynman. Choose your next move carefully. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2011 8:22:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember people bitching about the Gamecube controller, but it really felt similar to the Dual Shock 2 to me. It certainly wasn't as bad as the Dreamcast or original Xbox controllers. The N64 was the one with the shitty controller, in my eyes.
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It's amazing to me that storytelling in general really hasn't gotten better, it's just gotten more ubiquitous.
