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Post by felipepepe on Sept 16, 2014 18:01:56 GMT -5
What's the deal with Sir-Tech Canada? Were any of the Wizardry games made in Canada? Jagged Alliance 2 is the only game from Sir-Tech that felt obviously Canadian to me (C7 is the best gun, one merc is from Quebec... with very authentic voice acting). Sir-Tech Canada was created to escape the lawsuit Greenberg moved against Sir-Tech "US" over Wizardry royalties (he wasn't getting payed). Sir-Tech US filed for bankruptcy and had their assets purchased by the very same people, but now in Canada, beyond US law reach. Or so they thought, because Greenberg managed to use a "Long Arm" law (basically, the US court had jurisdiction over Sir-Tech Canada because they were releasing Wizardry products in the US) to keep the lawsuit running... but the Siroteks kept appealing, and it dragged on for years and years. That's why none of the japanese games ever came back, Sir-Tech couldn't release anything Wizardy-related in the US or they would legitimize Greenberg's "Long Arm" claim. All of that is public, just google for "Greenberg Sirotek lawsuit" and you'll find the jugde rullings. And a lot of sludge. And here's some Wizardry toys:  That's Werdna in the middle. :3 You can see almost everything released in Japan here: www.pekori.jp/~emonoya/Just go clicking on the left menu and see the wonderful stuff they got. |
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Post by Seth0708 on Sept 17, 2014 12:39:07 GMT -5
Never seen those toys before. I knew about the manga and the anime though.
I used to play the older games on DOS, but hadn't played one for years until Labyrinth of Lost Souls came out in the US on Playstation 3. I really enjoyed that one a lot, I even wrote one of the guides for it on GameFAQs, but sadly it didn't seem to do well enough to warrant a localization of the sequel in North America.
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Post by TheChosen on Sept 17, 2014 13:17:18 GMT -5
That site is really nifty.
These are less of a toys though and more of a gaming miniatures. Was there some kind of game for these or some sort of tabletop conversion?
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Post by derboo on Sept 17, 2014 13:19:02 GMT -5
Was there some kind of game for these or some sort of tabletop conversion? Yes. Several, actually: www.pekori.jp/~emonoya/goods/sale/trpg.html (although it looks like the figures were sold before any of them were published) |
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Post by dsparil on Sept 18, 2014 13:02:42 GMT -5
What's the deal with Sir-Tech Canada? Were any of the Wizardry games made in Canada? Jagged Alliance 2 is the only game from Sir-Tech that felt obviously Canadian to me (C7 is the best gun, one merc is from Quebec... with very authentic voice acting). Sir-Tech Canada was created to escape the lawsuit Greenberg moved against Sir-Tech "US" over Wizardry royalties (he wasn't getting payed). Sir-Tech US filed for bankruptcy and had their assets purchased by the very same people, but now in Canada, beyond US law reach. Or so they thought, because Greenberg managed to use a "Long Arm" law (basically, the US court had jurisdiction over Sir-Tech Canada because they were releasing Wizardry products in the US) to keep the lawsuit running... but the Siroteks kept appealing, and it dragged on for years and years. That's why none of the japanese games ever came back, Sir-Tech couldn't release anything Wizardy-related in the US or they would legitimize Greenberg's "Long Arm" claim. All of that is public, just google for "Greenberg Sirotek lawsuit" and you'll find the jugde rullings. And a lot of sludge. I always figured that it was Sir-Tech's unsuccessful attempts at broader publishing coupled with endless delays for the original Stones of Arnhem version of Wiz 8 that brought them down. I guess that was really a symptom of the lawsuit and a need for for more money to fund a defense. Reading through some of the court documents, I'm not even sure what was going in Sirotek's head. I mean, he lied to the court about information that was publicly available! |
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Post by felipepepe on Sept 18, 2014 13:52:46 GMT -5
Stones of Arnhem was another sleazy move. They couldn't do a Wizardry game, so they sent the Wizardry 7 code to a team in Australia, asked them to create a sequel altering the code (that they couldn't use) and they intended to publish it under a different name... that's what Cleve told at the Codex, and while he isn't a very reliable source, the court documents make his story sound quite plausible.
Sad thing that no one will touch this. I tried to interview Greenberg some months ago, and while he was very friendly, he wouldn't talk about anything related to Wizardry. :/
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Post by derboo on Sept 19, 2014 1:36:43 GMT -5
All of that is public, just google for "Greenberg Sirotek lawsuit" and you'll find the jugde rullings. And a lot of sludge. Is there anything beyond the December 16, 2010 one? Cause something obviously changed in 2011, but nothing really seems to have been resolved in that ruling (unless it had the result that the Siroteks finally gave up and made an agreement to pay Greenberg). Stones of Arnhem was another sleazy move. They couldn't do a Wizardry game, so they sent the Wizardry 7 code to a team in Australia, asked them to create a sequel altering the code (that they couldn't use) and they intended to publish it under a different name... that's what Cleve told at the Codex, and while he isn't a very reliable source, the court documents make his story sound quite plausible. There are big holes in that story that would have to be filled to make that claim even remotely credible. There are no known changes in the legal situation between 1992-1997, and yet Sir-Tech clearly had no problem marketing a Wizardry game in 1996. (And given usual development times, Nemesis would have been started shortly after or possibly even before the ultimate cancellation of the Stones of Arnhem project.) And calling Blakemore "not a very reliable source" is an understatement. |
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Post by felipepepe on Sept 19, 2014 6:08:59 GMT -5
Yeah, I never found anything beyond the 2010 ones. I don't trust Sirotek, but in his recent interview to Matt Chat he claimed that the lawsuit was all settled and payed, so I'm guessing an agreement was made.
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Post by dsparil on Sept 19, 2014 9:15:27 GMT -5
All of that is public, just google for "Greenberg Sirotek lawsuit" and you'll find the jugde rullings. And a lot of sludge. Is there anything beyond the December 16, 2010 one? Cause something obviously changed in 2011, but nothing really seems to have been resolved in that ruling (unless it had the result that the Siroteks finally gave up and made an agreement to pay Greenberg). Stones of Arnhem was another sleazy move. They couldn't do a Wizardry game, so they sent the Wizardry 7 code to a team in Australia, asked them to create a sequel altering the code (that they couldn't use) and they intended to publish it under a different name... that's what Cleve told at the Codex, and while he isn't a very reliable source, the court documents make his story sound quite plausible. There are big holes in that story that would have to be filled to make that claim even remotely credible. There are no known changes in the legal situation between 1992-1997, and yet Sir-Tech clearly had no problem marketing a Wizardry game in 1996. (And given usual development times, Nemesis would have been started shortly after or possibly even before the ultimate cancellation of the Stones of Arnhem project.) And calling Blakemore "not a very reliable source" is an understatement. I haven't made my way through the entire Codex thread that felipepepe mentions, but the sound effect and music composerd for the game, Philip Moore, provided some more info. Sir-Tech did approach their Australian distributor to find an Australian developer for Wiz 8. They were supposed to use the Wiz 7 engine and create a floppy based game, but Sir-Tech imposed technology changes without increasing the budget and that ultimately doomed the project. There was first a change to CD and then a move to free roaming rather than tile-based movement. There just wasn't enough money to do what Sir-Tech wanted although internal problems seem to be what ultimately caused it's cancellation although it does not seem like it would have been finished even if the team was totally harmonious. One of the programmers was fired sometime after the move to CD and Blakemore was brought on to replace him. While he was technically skilled, his homophobia (among other things) was causing problems in the team. When the lead writer left, Moore took on those responsibilities which caused more problems with Blakemore since he wanted to be lead writer. Eventually the entire project just collapsed because according to Blakemore and Moore, Blakemore convinced Sir-Tech to hand the project to him alone which obviously went nowhere. There do seem to be a few teensy nuggets of truth in Blakemore's rambling but it's mixed with so much homophobia, racist paranoia, general delusion and flat out lies that it's impossible to pick out expect in hindsight. The weird thing is that there are at least two emails and a post from Philip Moore, but the post claims the second email is fraudulent but does not dispute or contradict its contents. The person that asked for the info from Moore in the first place implied that he got both responses from the same address and Moore is being forgetful, but it's also really easy to spoof a From: address. I disagree that there was no change between 1992 and 1997. Greenberg first filed a royalty lawsuit in 1992 right when he stopped receiving them. The 2010 document says that Robert Sirotek hired a firm that spent a '''number of years'" (his words) looking for someone to buy Sir-Tech's assets in order to pay for legal defense before the 1998 transfer to Sir-Tech Canada. Greenberg filed a second suit regarding trade secrets in 2001. Sir-Tech would have been free to do as they wished with Wizardry since there was not a preliminary injunction against them which would have stopped them from continuing to use Wizardry and possibly from selling older titles too. Nemesis and Gold were developed while the original lawsuit was ongoing because they were legally free to do so. I don't know if Greenberg tried to get an injunction and was denied or if he just didn't because his lawyer didn't think to do so. |
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Post by Garamoth on Sept 19, 2014 9:30:29 GMT -5
Ugh... Elminage Gothic was released yesterday on Steam. Bought it for old times' sake. It reminds me that Wizardry had the challenge, yes, but it also had all the bullshit design elements, which Elminage preserves for posterity: not leveling up until you get to town... and then losing stats on level up, incomprehensible spell names (with the explanation scrolling in a microscopic window), the chore of managing inventory between characters, re-rolling bonus points to actually get a decent character, a map item that can only be looked at once, rookie warriors that miss a paralyzed slime 75% of the time, etc. They DO make them like they used to! Not sure it's a good thing, though.  |
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Post by kaoru on Sept 19, 2014 10:30:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I honestly feel like Wizardry isn't particularly much fun until VI, so Japan's obsession with the first three is a bit baffling to me. And Elminage is basicly just Wizardry Empire after Starfish lost the rights to use the name with a couple of tweaks, even reusing a lot of the monster art.
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Post by thaquoth on Sept 21, 2014 14:28:01 GMT -5
I remain sort of morbidly fascinated with this Blakemore character.
The whole thing, be it the murky story of his Sir-Tech involvement or the incredible 20-year neverending Saga of him building his ridiculous game (the latest episode being him flying off the handle when a kickstarter with the same name recently launched... good stuff), combined with completely delusional neo-nazi conspiracy theorist rhetoric (the neanderthal-stuff is a classic Herrenrasse argument - and complete nonsense of course), is simply so ludicrous I can't help but be entertained by it.
You just have to be able to stomach reading some really vile bullshit, I guess.
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lightingman
Full Member
Shh I'm hunting Zekes
Posts: 162
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Post by lightingman on Sept 27, 2014 4:38:25 GMT -5
www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wizardry-iv-throb-of-the-demons-heart.68710/Has Sketcz-1000 ever heard of this. It seems to be a Japan only and original game. It uses the Wizardy engine, but seems to be a all new adventure set in a mystical ancient japan? Will the article cover this it seems to be fairly unknown. Along with the Wizardry Gaiden games and Wizardry Summoner game on GBA? There is also a Wizardry Level editor for what seems to be the apple 2 called Wizfix? I've never played Wizardry, I love Legend of Grimrock and D&D. As well as the overall AD&D mechanics like level drain for vampires that it brings up. I must say this may have been one of the last snes games! It's graphics are STUNNING! like Bahumet Lagoon and Star Ocean are on par with the detailed level of sprite work. I can sort of understand how they'd be able to do this though. With the fact that you don't have to animate player characters and or a major over world. Everything can be relegated to the dungeon and it's monsters art asset wise. Very few console versions of pc games like ShadowGate overcome their pc counterpart, but due to the time span it makes sense. On the topic of Console RPG/ Dungeon Crawlers. I think there is a game called Dungeon World or something for Famicom/NES that's fairly interesting. It's by far one of the Heavier in weight due to the chips used for a famicom game. As well as the port of Ultima 4 for NES. If anyone knows what were the biggest in terms of size. Games for the SNES and NES. I'd think that Chrono Trigger or Star Ocean or Possibly Bahumet Lagoon. Just for the pure size of the art assets and Digitized voices of Star Ocean. For snes possibly an RPG. Possibly Lagrange Point on Famicom would be a good contender for most technical. www.racketboy.com/retro/super-nintendo-snes-games-that-pushed-the-limits-graphics-soundwww.racketboy.com/retro/nintendo/nes/best-nes-graphics-soundThese seem to cover what I was asking, but it's cool anyways!
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Post by kaoru on Sept 27, 2014 12:43:49 GMT -5
Pretty sure so far "only" the stuff listet on the top are planned - the western games, plus Online, plus a quick mention of the japanese stuff. Kinda understandably, going through the half a million japanese only releases would be a monumantal task.
There are also games released for the SNES in Japan way late. Wizardry Trilogy itself came out in 1999, Fire Emblem 776 in 2000.
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WIZARDRY
Sept 29, 2014 11:03:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by fanofsmbx on Sept 29, 2014 11:03:36 GMT -5
"(update of) Wizardry: Heart of the Maelstrom and Crisaders of the Dark Savant". It should be wizardry 5 and 6.
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