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Post by Allie on May 12, 2014 10:33:25 GMT -5
Actually, by definition, moe is non-sexual. Moe has been corrupted to BECOME sexual in modern Japanese pop culture... but the concept itself was originally all about innocence and purity. A moe character is designed to tap into the viewer/reader/player's motherly or fatherly instincts and make him/her desire to protect the purity of the character from the corruptive influences of the world. If the viewer/reader/player is meant to fall in love with the moe character, it's meant to be a pure, deep love, with little to no lustful component. A perfect example of true moe can be found in the anime or visual novel "Clannad." Which is renowned for being non-pornographic and containing not even so much as a panty shot, yet remains one of the most celebrated in its entire genre. Hey Tom, here's a challenge for you. How about you convince the company to remove the female portraits entirely but keep the male ones? Even just doing it theoretically. Give me a good reason why you wouldn't do that that doesn't involve censorship or equality. My reasons are anti-censorship and pro-equality. I'm not interested in tipping the scales in the other direction. EVER. Fighting the predominance of female fanservice by removing female fanservice and replacing it with male fanservice would be like fighting racism by creating a "blacks only" restaurant. It would make no sense to discriminate in that fashion, and would absolutely not help the problem in any way. Because it would be unfair to each individual game if they weren't all treated individually. A game should not suffer because of an industry trend -- it should live and die entirely by its own merits. Each game might as well exist in a vacuum as far as I'm concerned -- it should be judged for what it is and how closely it managed to achieve the goals set out by its creators, not for what it isn't or what it does that people don't approve of. If Japan developed a game that contained exclusively male fanservice, I'd welcome it, and would wholeheartedly recommend it to XSEED. But I'm not going to take a game that contains female fanservice and REMOVE that female fanservice from it, as it would no longer be an accurate representation of the creator's vision. It would be a different game altogether. In other words, it doesn't matter how many female fanservice games there are... if I'm playing a female fanservice game, and it's GOOD, I'm going to champion it. I'm not going to lament that it relies on tired, offensive sexualization to sell copies -- I'm going to accept that it was designed to rely on sexualization, and judge it on how well it pulls that off and how fun it is overall. I will never judge a game poorly because of a social stigma, however. If it achieves what it set out to do, it's a good game. Regardless of what it set out to do. -Tom Necroposting now that I'm sober again. I think the sad thing, at this point, is it seems like very little Japanese media can make it over here anymore without SOME level of fetishistic sexuality attached to it. And I'm not sure it's because research has shown that things just won't sell without it, or because "sex is the oil that drives the engine of social change", or what have you... Or if, in the end, it's just the forward result of basic human nature for the majority of people to sexualize everything as the species continues to live on. Still, even as we march inexorably towards being ever more and more sexualized, I'm not sure a naked wang whipping around in the wind is "equal" to bouncing breasts. I'm not sure I really am trying to make any sort of argument here (I don't think I am), rather than just stream-of-consciousnessing out various thoughts....
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Post by wyrdwad on May 12, 2014 11:21:34 GMT -5
Still, even as we march inexorably towards being ever more and more sexualized, I'm not sure a naked wang whipping around in the wind is "equal" to bouncing breasts. I agree with most of your post, but just wanted to quote this part and be absolutely certain you didn't think "naked wangs whipping around in the wind" is what I'm claiming we've got in Akiba's Trip. Because yeah, there are no wangs in Akiba's Trip, just as there are no bare breasts or exposed vaginas. What we have for the men are bare chests, submissive poses, heavy blushing and... erm... "packed" underwear, at the most extreme. And while I'm not really able to judge the hotness of such things personally, these new images very much pass the female XSEED employee hotness test. I think Brittany's had a collage of them as her wallpaper since we got the very first build featuring them. And when she first encountered Soga's portrait, she couldn't stop smiling. So while it may not be for everyone... it's an effort, nonetheless. An attempt to keep things balanced. And, to at least some extent, it seems like it's achieved its goal. -Tom
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Post by moran on May 12, 2014 14:31:49 GMT -5
What we have for the men are bare chests, submissive poses, heavy blushing and... erm... "packed" underwear, at the most extreme. Hasn't this always been the case in games though? You can go back to Golden Axe and Altred Beast and see the same things.
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Post by Allie on May 12, 2014 14:38:46 GMT -5
I weep for the people getting off on Altered Beast's Hyper-Steroid-Bodies.
Though, if that game was being made for the first time, now, would it be marketed around detailed sexualized artwork of the "So Roided Up I Can't Move" versions of the protagonists, showered with baby oil and in bodybuilder poses?
Who knows?
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Post by moran on May 12, 2014 14:45:03 GMT -5
I'm sure they're out there, Powering-Up.
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Post by Allie on May 12, 2014 14:47:25 GMT -5
I'm sure they're out there, Powering-Up. Meanwhile, other people are wondering why it didn't have equal sexual representation for fat people.
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Post by moran on May 12, 2014 15:13:23 GMT -5
I'm sure they're out there, Powering-Up. Meanwhile, other people are wondering why it didn't have equal sexual representation for fat people. Well, you do turn into a giant bear that turns things rock solid towards the end.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 12, 2014 15:43:07 GMT -5
What we have for the men are bare chests, submissive poses, heavy blushing and... erm... "packed" underwear, at the most extreme. Hasn't this always been the case in games though? You can go back to Golden Axe and Altred Beast and see the same things. Bare chests aren't uncommon, but only for unrealistically beefcake dudes. And rarely are they ever depicted as submissive or embarrassed, nor specifically sexualized in any other way. In other words, we've smutted them up real good compared to the likes of Altered Beast. -Tom
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Post by wyrdwad on May 12, 2014 15:43:27 GMT -5
Ack! Internet hiccup led to a double-post, and I can't seem to delete, so please ignore this.
-Tom
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Post by Scylla on May 12, 2014 17:26:45 GMT -5
What we have for the men are bare chests, submissive poses, heavy blushing and... erm... "packed" underwear, at the most extreme. Hasn't this always been the case in games though? You can go back to Golden Axe and Altred Beast and see the same things. No. Just no. I'd say more, but I really don't think this board needs yet another discussion to explain the difference between portraits of men designed for men to represent the "ideal man" versus portraits of men designed for the female gaze. I can't blame guys too much, though. When nearly ALL female characters in games are designed for the male gaze, unless they're purposely designed to be unattractive, it's hard to grasp the concept of attractive characters who aren't sexualized nor designed to appeal to the opposite sex.
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Post by moran on May 12, 2014 18:17:16 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm just playing ignorant devil's advocate and trying to lighten the mood a little in the thread.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on May 12, 2014 18:19:14 GMT -5
Meanwhile, other people are wondering why it didn't have equal sexual representation for fat people. Well, you do turn into a giant bear that turns things rock solid towards the end. POWER UP!
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Post by Allie on May 12, 2014 18:34:26 GMT -5
Well, you do turn into a giant bear that turns things rock solid towards the end. POWER UP! GET IT!
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Post by Snarboo on May 12, 2014 19:04:07 GMT -5
I dunno if Altered Beast is the best example since it seems to cater more to fetishists, particularly furries, than women.
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Post by Ike on May 12, 2014 19:24:57 GMT -5
Getting off to video games is kind of weird in general
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