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Post by Ike on Sept 21, 2014 15:37:55 GMT -5
Yes
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 15:44:30 GMT -5
Technically, I would agree. What, an FPS can have RPG elements, but an RPG can't have FPS elements?
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Post by Ike on Sept 21, 2014 15:54:12 GMT -5
Yeah, why is calling Portal an FPS wrong? It's first person, and you shoot. It can be both an FPS and a platformer, or both an FPS and an RPG.
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Post by elektrolurch on Sept 21, 2014 16:30:59 GMT -5
I think calling portal a fps is wrong on a lot of levels, as is your flowchart. lets apply the chart to other media, shall we?like,for instance,music genres: Is it heavy metal?
Does it feature a guitar? | v--------------No------------|-----------Yes--------------v It is not heavy metal.................................Is the guitar distorted? .........................................| ^---------------------------------No--------|----Yes----v ...........................................................................It is a heavy metal.
it is lazy and misleading beyond belief. and i think making better,more fitting cagetories which are more similar to other media,say movie or literature, may help the gaming landscape as a whole a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 16:33:43 GMT -5
I think people put too much stock in labels instead of just enjoying games because they're fun.
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Post by elektrolurch on Sept 21, 2014 17:11:50 GMT -5
labels shape reality, i see it in so many aspects of other media. why shouldn't it be the same for games? why should't we use,while talking about games we love, about appropiate categories which may also shape the way they are recieved by others?......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 17:15:22 GMT -5
Because it doesn't really matter? They could call RPGs "cockshitters" and the games would still be fun.
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Post by elektrolurch on Sept 21, 2014 17:37:55 GMT -5
but see how long it took for first person games to do anything other than shooting, see how long it took for games to focus on anything other than combat. that has,partly,to do with genre conventions. if they would have called rpgs"first person dungeon crawler", i think it would have taken way longer to evolve the genre into many different experiences(albeit dungeon crawlers can be fun;)). all i want to say is that the way we categorize media has influences on the way it is produced.
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Post by Garamoth on Sept 21, 2014 17:37:59 GMT -5
I think calling portal a fps is wrong on a lot of levels, as is your flowchart. lets apply the chart to other media, shall we?like,for instance,music genres: Is it heavy metal?
Does it feature a guitar? | v--------------No------------|-----------Yes--------------v It is not heavy metal.................................Is the guitar distorted? .........................................| ^---------------------------------No--------|----Yes----v ...........................................................................It is a heavy metal.
it is lazy and misleading beyond belief. and i think making better,more fitting cagetories which are more similar to other media,say movie or literature, may help the gaming landscape as a whole a lot. But this example doesn't really work. First Person Shooter is literal. Heavy Metal has neither a weight limit and isn't really any more metallic than pop or electronica or whatever. Maybe the musicians wear more studs, though...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 17:46:00 GMT -5
but see how long it took for first person games to do anything other than shooting, see how long it took for games to focus on anything other than combat. that has,partly,to do with genre conventions. if they would have called rpgs"first person dungeon crawler", i think it would have taken way longer to evolve the genre into many different experiences(albeit dungeon crawlers can be fun;)). all i want to say is that the way we categorize media has influences on the way it is produced. Not sure how familiar you are with the game development process, but the programmers and designers don't sit around feeling stymied because there's no official genre for whatever they're working on. They just make something that sounds good to them (or is mandated by their bosses). There was no "Metroidvania" term before Symphony of the Night was made, but Konami still made the game. The evolution happens regardless of the label. It's certainly true that a rose might not smell as sweet if it were called a fart flower, but why get tied up labels to begin with?
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Post by elektrolurch on Sept 21, 2014 18:40:12 GMT -5
Not sure how familiar you are with the game development process, but the programmers and designers don't sit around feeling stymied because there's no official genre for whatever they're working on. They just make something that sounds good to them (or is mandated by their bosses). There was no "Metroidvania" term before Symphony of the Night was made, but Konami still made the game. The evolution happens regardless of the label. It's certainly true that a rose might not smell as sweet if it were called a fart flower, but why get tied up labels to begin with? not sure how familiar you are with sociolinguistics, but categories shape the way we experience reality.that is why pc language is even an issue, and that is also why off course labels in any media dictate to a certain degree what can be made,esp with big companies, and what not. see after symphony of the night and the establishment of the genre"metroidvania",all 2d castlevania games were metroidvanias?i get tied up in labels because it shapes the possible experiences and our understanding of things. it's not only the word, but what we subconsciously associate with it. It's not just the word, but the criteria we use for a thing to match that word which constitutes how we precieve reality as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 19:22:37 GMT -5
The whole subject just sounds to me like the kind of thing a new college student goes crazy over while the rest of the world goes on with their lives. It's fine if you want to put value into labels, but I personally do not.
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Post by Snarboo on Sept 22, 2014 1:25:46 GMT -5
Yeah, why is calling Portal an FPS wrong? It's first person, and you shoot. It can be both an FPS and a platformer, or both an FPS and an RPG. This is true, but it raises questions with games like Eye of the Beholder (there are ranged characters in a lot of real time dungeon crawlers), first person games with turn based combat like Wizardry, or first person games with strictly melee combat. Then there's things like House of the Dead, which are first person, but where movement is on rails. In Portal's case, I just call it a first person puzzle game because there's a lack of player-on-enemy combat that I feel needs to be present for it to be an FPS. Yes, you can disable the turrets in Portal, but you often have to do so with environmental objects or through other trickery.
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Post by Ike on Sept 22, 2014 13:02:28 GMT -5
Maybe genres are fluid and imprecise shorthand to give a vague description of a piece of media and not something that needs to be qualified? Honestly, which is dumber: calling Metroid Prime a first person shooter, or spending 30 minutes complaining about how it can't qualify as a first person shooter because it has a lock on button? (An actual thing that has happened to me)
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Post by Snarboo on Sept 22, 2014 13:34:14 GMT -5
Oh I'm not disputing that, but sometimes it helps to be less ambiguous too, otherwise the genre label is meaningless. I think it's fine to call Deus Ex or System Shock 2 FPS games.
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