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Post by Allie on Sept 27, 2014 22:08:36 GMT -5
Lesson Learned : People Suck.
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Post by llj on Sept 28, 2014 11:42:06 GMT -5
I don't think there are many journalists that don't push some kind of agenda. A lot of them may not be politically charged, or even all that important, they are agendas. All the people you've named, if I'm thinking of the right people, I know they certainly do. the guy on Kotaku who keeps talking about how Japan is Valhalla on Earth for example. Politically, I probably lean similar to many of the game/anime/comic reviewers out there who are usually left of centre, but even I find their online lynch mobbing and whining excessive most of the time, especially for what should be considered fairly trivial hobbies. And that brings up another problem: the vast majority of game critics/writers who out there are all along the same political stripes so what exactly distinguishes one critic from another, aside from allegiance to Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo? Basically, that's the only thing that seemingly distinguishes one talking head from another these days. All those online kerfuffles over the boobs or thighs in Dragon's Crown, for example, I just find trivial at best and irritating at worst. And furthermore, tackling at the problem of gender inequality at entirely the wrong way anyway.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 28, 2014 11:52:33 GMT -5
I don't think there are many journalists that don't push some kind of agenda. A lot of them may not be politically charged, or even all that important, they are agendas. All the people you've named, if I'm thinking of the right people, I know they certainly do. the guy on Kotaku who keeps talking about how Japan is Valhalla on Earth for example. Politically, I probably lean similar to many of the game/anime/comic reviewers out there who are usually left of centre, but even I find their online lynch mobbing and whining excessive most of the time, especially for what should be considered fairly trivial hobbies. And that brings up another problem: the vast majority of game critics/writers who out there are all along the same political stripes so what exactly distinguishes one critic from another, aside from allegiance to Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo? Basically, that's the only thing that seemingly distinguishes one talking head from another these days. All those online kerfuffles over the boobs or thighs in Dragon's Crown, for example, I just find trivial at best and irritating at worst. And furthermore, tackling at the problem of gender inequality at entirely the wrong way anyway. That just bugs me. I've always felt they were meant to look ridiculous at worst, and meant to emulate Vallejo or Frazzeta at best. I may be speaking from privilege, but I've never seen the harm in cheesecake. I've never met a woman who was offended by it. And I'm an idiot if I expect a woman to look like that.
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Post by Allie on Sept 28, 2014 12:10:33 GMT -5
I don't think there are many journalists that don't push some kind of agenda. A lot of them may not be politically charged, or even all that important, they are agendas. All the people you've named, if I'm thinking of the right people, I know they certainly do. the guy on Kotaku who keeps talking about how Japan is Valhalla on Earth for example. Politically, I probably lean similar to many of the game/anime/comic reviewers out there who are usually left of centre, but even I find their online lynch mobbing and whining excessive most of the time, especially for what should be considered fairly trivial hobbies. And that brings up another problem: the vast majority of game critics/writers who out there are all along the same political stripes so what exactly distinguishes one critic from another, aside from allegiance to Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo? Basically, that's the only thing that seemingly distinguishes one talking head from another these days. All those online kerfuffles over the boobs or thighs in Dragon's Crown, for example, I just find trivial at best and irritating at worst. And furthermore, tackling at the problem of gender inequality at entirely the wrong way anyway. See, I don't know, I'm one of those evil right-wingers, and even I found Dragon's Crown kind of ridiculous. I tend to get more annoyed when people start to claim a game is terrible or oppressive because their preferred identity group doesn't have "representation" in it.
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Post by llj on Sept 28, 2014 12:30:16 GMT -5
See, I don't know, I'm one of those evil right-wingers, and even I found Dragon's Crown kind of ridiculous. I tend to get more annoyed when people start to claim a game is terrible or oppressive because their preferred identity group doesn't have "representation" in it. Dragon's Crown's exaggeration of certain female body parts may be ridiculous as you said, but that's really all it is. There is nothing really sinister about ridiculousness. It's not a big enough deal to kick up a shitstorm over, and it was certainly not all-on misogynist assault some in the gaming media made it out to be. Yet the writer who originally called attention to it was making a bigger deal out of it than it warranted. I don't even read kotaku and I ran into the HUGE debates on every game forum I went to and all I could say was "Really guys? Over something THIS trivial?" (And it should be noted that the loudest voices during this shitstorm WERE males, which is hilarious) I personally haven't ran into any "Why isn't there more X kind of group in this game" articles, but I can picture it happening and being annoying. Honestly, I'm more sympathetic to this complaint in film or TV because there are a lot of actors who aren't white who could probably use some more work. But in games, they're just a bunch of pixels and stuff.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 28, 2014 12:34:15 GMT -5
Which goes to show that White Knights are real. But, as we all forget, the internet consists of 16 year old boys and men are act like 16 year old boys. So they all tend to look like Don Quixote rather. Blanco Caballero if you will.
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TonicBH
Junior Member
8-bit Alex Trebek is judging you.
Posts: 79
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Post by TonicBH on Sept 28, 2014 19:50:44 GMT -5
It's entirely possible that from an outsider's perspective, one who's never played Vanillaware stuff, that the art is terrible. As a person who was not interested in Dragon's Crown or played any of the developer's stuff to date, I hated the art not just because it looked sexist, but because it was terribly designed. I've seen 17-year-olds on Deviantart shit out better stuff than whoever their character designer thought was their best stuff. Maybe their stuff all looks like that, but I certainly thought it was terrible.
I think that particular message of alleged sexism or bad quality got mutated into "this game is sexist and I don't like it so I'm gonna dock 3 points off the score of this thing" when that's not anywhere close to what they're saying. If they don't like that, regardless of what sex of the person critiquing it, that's their prerogative. It's hardly a "white knight" thing, which I'm starting to dislike as much as "SJW" in terms of slinging labels at people we don't like.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 21:18:20 GMT -5
Dragon's Crown isn't the right game to be flinging shit at the artwork of. It's too stylish. dramatic and artistically minded. Try infantilized moeblob garbage like Senran Kagura, or trashy garbage like Oneechanbara instead. Oh wait, I guess those don't get enough attention from the mainstream gaming media outlets, so they're spared from the wrath of the SJW hivemind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 21:26:52 GMT -5
I can definitely agree that a lot of notable offenders fail to get the sort of negative attention they might deserve. That doesn't exactly equate to a man saying what a woman has and does not have the right to get offended over when it comes to the depiction of females in games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 21:39:00 GMT -5
I never claimed to be an arbiter of taste. People can and will get offended over a multitude of things that appear in media, and it's not up to me to decide what they can and can't get their jimmies rustled over, as long as they don't begin calling for the work in question to be forcibly censored to conform to their own tastes and worldview. That doesn't change my own opinion that the artistic merits of Dragon's Crown are much too high for the game and its director to have been dragged through the mud to such an extent, especially with many far worse offenders on the market.
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Post by masamvne on Sept 29, 2014 1:47:53 GMT -5
I find it hard to understand the amount of controversy over games like Dragon's Crown and Senran Kagura. Criticising the art style is one thing, but surely there are more important things than sexualised women in niche Japanese games for journalists and would-be campaigners to focus their energy on.
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Post by Échalote on Sept 29, 2014 2:17:28 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 2:29:56 GMT -5
It's trivial compared to world hunger or nuclear proliferation, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue that needs to be addressed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 14:57:35 GMT -5
I'd say they attract a very disproportionate amount of debate and linking/reposting compared to other topics reported on in games journalism nowadays, though.
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Post by Allie on Sept 29, 2014 15:22:37 GMT -5
I'd say they attract a very disproportionate amount of debate and linking/reposting compared to other topics reported on in games journalism nowadays, though. Well, nothing will get a message board (regardless of which one) bickering and arguing like saying "Oh, you liked [insert game here]? That makes you a bigoted neanderthal if male, or cluelessly undermining your own cause if female!".
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