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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 10:45:10 GMT -5
I actually liked the old Mario cartoons. They were squarely aimed at young children, and that's really what Mario should be. Bullshit. That line of thinking is what led to the White Tanooki Suit. SMB2: For Super Players (JPN) spits in the face of this notion. (I'm gonna assume you're not just talking about the setting, story and characters, because there hasn't yet been a Mario game where those weren't aimed at young children, with the arguable exception of the second two Paper Mario games.) |
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Post by The Great Klaid on Oct 10, 2014 10:49:06 GMT -5
I actually liked the old Mario cartoons. They were squarely aimed at young children, and that's really what Mario should be. Bullshit. That line of thinking is what led to the White Tanooki Suit. SMB2: For Super Players (JPN) spits in the face of this notion. You know strangely, I still have my copy of SMB2. I don't remember Nintendo creeping in one night and smashing it and saying ssssh little Klaid. Mario isn't supposed to be this hard. |
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Post by Jungyin on Oct 10, 2014 11:03:28 GMT -5
I don't see what's wrong with the white Tanooki Suit? I'd say it's good thing actually, let's more people enjoy the game, those that want a challenge can ignore it, and the elitists can still brag that their stars are all sparkly.
I saw AoStH after SatAM, and I liked it more at first just because the intro and the first episodes I saw incorporated more stuff from the games. Then they started showing literal wiener people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 13:41:23 GMT -5
I actually liked the old Mario cartoons. They were squarely aimed at young children, and that's really what Mario should be. Bullshit. That line of thinking is what led to the White Tanooki Suit. SMB2: For Super Players (JPN) spits in the face of this notion. (I'm gonna assume you're not just talking about the setting, story and characters, because there hasn't yet been a Mario game where those weren't aimed at young children, with the arguable exception of the second two Paper Mario games.) Yes, the entirely optional white tanooki suit. That completely ruins your experience by not being forced to use it. The NSMB games have been great, in my opinion. I'm glad we've been getting a steady stream of "classic" Mario games, even if it's a royal pain in the ass to collect all of the special coins. |
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Post by The Great Klaid on Oct 10, 2014 14:22:00 GMT -5
Bullshit. That line of thinking is what led to the White Tanooki Suit. SMB2: For Super Players (JPN) spits in the face of this notion. (I'm gonna assume you're not just talking about the setting, story and characters, because there hasn't yet been a Mario game where those weren't aimed at young children, with the arguable exception of the second two Paper Mario games.) Yes, the entirely optional white tanooki suit. That completely ruins your experience by not being forced to use it. The NSMB games have been great, in my opinion. I'm glad we've been getting a steady stream of "classic" Mario games, even if it's a royal pain in the ass to collect all of the special coins. For the record I'm trash at Mario games, so I appreciated it in Mario 3D land. Also for the record, I went back and beat them fair and square. Liked having the option of being able to see the end of the game rather than spending hours on a level and never touching the game again. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 11:38:30 GMT -5
Mike Matei agrees with me that the White Tanooki Suit and similar no-effort, "everyone's a winner" concessions are fucking bullshit. Along with the everyone-gets-a-trophy mindset that currently prevails among many real-life youth sports programs, what kind of a lesson are we teaching today's kids? 3D World is far from being the most hardcore game in the world, but Nintendo should have had enough respect for its excellent level designs to not allow people to kick them over like sand castles the moment they encounter any frustration. You aren't "enjoying" the game when you have permanent invincibility, you're just treating it as eye and ear candy to be mindlessly and shallowly consumed. They already made the wise decision to omit the Mega Mushroom from all NSMB sequels, and it actually allowed you to ignore the level design to a much greater extent, except that it wasn't automatically given to you. (You could still use it to kill Dry Bowser in one jump, though!)
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Post by Snarboo on Oct 11, 2014 13:11:10 GMT -5
3D World is far from being the most hardcore game in the world, but Nintendo should have had enough respect for its excellent level designs to not allow people to kick them over like sand castles the moment they encounter any frustration. You aren't "enjoying" the game when you have permanent invincibility, you're just treating it as eye and ear candy to be mindlessly and shallowly consumed. You realize there are people that are literally disabled, people that are simply unskilled, or very young children playing videogames, right? Why should they be denied the right to play through and enjoy a game they otherwise wouldn't be able to? As others have noted, the white tanooki suit is completely optional, you are not obligated to pick it up if you choose not to. This attitude always confused me because it implies that only an elite few should enjoy videogames. It especially baffles me how many people on HG101 hold this view. Does making a game more accessible really hurt your enjoyment of it that much, especially when it's completely optional? Do we really WANT to go back to the 8 and 16-bit days that much, especially since a lot of people cheated back then anyway? Difficulty levels were invented for a reason! In fact, I imagine most of us were bad at videogames at some point and cheated heavily! For reference, I actually couldn't beat Doom 2 (or in fact most FPS games) without cheating until I hit my teens. All that cheating actually prepared me for when I played those games seriously, and I'm good enough at Doom 2 to beat most of it without saving my game once in a level. I imagine the white tanooki suit might be the same way for some people. |
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Post by Weasel on Oct 11, 2014 13:32:14 GMT -5
I don't mind when games add accessibility features or "super easy" modes like this. That's why I like when more recent games will keep track of your difficulty settings when recording scores/best times/whatever. In Wipeout HD, getting a Gold medal on the Easy setting is very different from getting a Gold medal on a harder mode. In 3DS Super Smash Bros, high scores on high Intensity settings supersede scores on lower ones. I would imagine that, if 3D World's designers were sensible, levels completed using the White Tanooki suit would be labeled as such on the world map. (I'm reasonably sure that NSMB Wii's Super Guide does that, at least...)
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Post by The Great Klaid on Oct 11, 2014 15:22:29 GMT -5
I don't mind when games add accessibility features or "super easy" modes like this. That's why I like when more recent games will keep track of your difficulty settings when recording scores/best times/whatever. In Wipeout HD, getting a Gold medal on the Easy setting is very different from getting a Gold medal on a harder mode. In 3DS Super Smash Bros, high scores on high Intensity settings supersede scores on lower ones. I would imagine that, if 3D World's designers were sensible, levels completed using the White Tanooki suit would be labeled as such on the world map. (I'm reasonably sure that NSMB Wii's Super Guide does that, at least...) Stars don't sparkle on the title IIRC if you use the white Tanooki suit. But I don't think the world map shows it, its been a while. @felixm Who are you to determine how someone enjoys a game? I used it twice, because I was sick of playing the same bloody level again and again. I don't get a trophy for beating it. I don't get a harem of women, a pile of money, and the fame and adulations of millions. I got to see my game to the end. And I even went back and beat them fair and square. I don't feel my victory has been cheapened. Mike Matei will not change my mind. Shigeru Miya-goddamn-moto could say it, and I would feel no different. I hasn't changed my enjoyment. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 15:23:50 GMT -5
I just don't get why everything has to be a federal case with this guy. You like something, great. You don't like something, fine. For the love of god, please stop talking down to the rest of the world.
Going back to the original topic, it would take a lot to get me to watch a new tv show these days. Maybe if there was a new Castlevania cartoon? That's about it.
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Post by Ike on Oct 12, 2014 9:55:07 GMT -5
who cares who cares "eye and ear candy to be mindlessly and shallowly consumed" is literally the definition of a video game then don't take the mushroom |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 11:32:54 GMT -5
3D World is far from being the most hardcore game in the world, but Nintendo should have had enough respect for its excellent level designs to not allow people to kick them over like sand castles the moment they encounter any frustration. You aren't "enjoying" the game when you have permanent invincibility, you're just treating it as eye and ear candy to be mindlessly and shallowly consumed. You realize there are people that are literally disabled, people that are simply unskilled, or very young children playing videogames, right? Why should they be denied the right to play through and enjoy a game they otherwise wouldn't be able to? As others have noted, the white tanooki suit is completely optional, you are not obligated to pick it up if you choose not to. This attitude always confused me because it implies that only an elite few should enjoy videogames. It especially baffles me how many people on HG101 hold this view. Does making a game more accessible really hurt your enjoyment of it that much, especially when it's completely optional? Do we really WANT to go back to the 8 and 16-bit days that much, especially since a lot of people cheated back then anyway? Difficulty levels were invented for a reason! In fact, I imagine most of us were bad at videogames at some point and cheated heavily! For reference, I actually couldn't beat Doom 2 (or in fact most FPS games) without cheating until I hit my teens. All that cheating actually prepared me for when I played those games seriously, and I'm good enough at Doom 2 to beat most of it without saving my game once in a level. I imagine the white tanooki suit might be the same way for some people. Do you also realize that disabled people don't like being condescendingly pandered to as if they were infants, and prefer being treated as capable human beings? Nintendo was way ahead of the curve with their hands-free NES controller, which let you play Super Mario Bros. even if you were a quadriplegic, but it was merely an alternate control method and didn't diminish the game design at all. It was totally feasible that someone could have gotten skilled enough at using it to beat the same games as any abled person, without any super-easy difficulty settings or other modifications. Similar hands-free and one-handed control devices have been made for other consoles. This is the proper way to accommodate the disabled in video games, not the fucking White Tanooki Suit. No one ever demands that chess, Magic the Gathering, or even solitaire should be dumbed down to be more forgiving to "the unskilled" or "very young children," why are video games such a major exception? Did anyone really give a shit before the FMV multimedia era was upon us, and the destination of finishing games became more important than the journey of actually playing them? Were the millions of people who bought Super Mario Bros. in the 1980s stricken with crushing disappointment, and felt victimized by the developers when they couldn't rescue Princess Toadstool on their first or even fifteenth try? No, they goddamn weren't. (And as a side note, I once knew a six year old who had a full understanding of the rules of chess, and could play a match to completion with some degree of competency. Never underestimate kids.) Are you seriously insinuating that it's solely the privilege of "an elite few" to be able to reach the credits of Super Mario 3D World without using the WTS? A game with abundant lives, frequent checkpoints, a generous item inventory, and a considerable margin for error when avoiding enemy attacks? Fuck no, it's only stuff like clearing Guwange without any continues or bombs, or completing X-COM: UFO Defense on the highest difficulty, that's truly for an elite few. Anyone with at least one working eyeball and basic fine motor skills should be able to finish the base set of levels in 3D World if they actually bother to practice, even when refusing to fall back on the dumb white suit the moment they encounter a small string of failures. The same goes for many, many similar games. I most definitely cheated at Doom back in the day, but it was because I was a dumb kid and didn't know any better. It got boring fast and quickly stopped being fun because there was no resistance, and my skills weren't being tested or improved at all. Hell, it wasn't until a few years ago that I figured out how to avoid the Arch-Vile's attack. I would have reaped much more entertainment from the game if I had the patience back then to stick things out, absorb the level designs as they were meant to be experienced, and clear the missions legitimately. And Ike, since you don't even care enough about what you're writing to bother capitalizing your sentences, I'm just gonna tell you to go fuck yourself. Though I do have this response for you: 1. If you're going to use the word "literally" without sounding like a tweenage Justin Bieber fangirl, the only definition you're allowed to give for the noun "video game" is "an electronic game in which players control images on a television or computer screen." 2. If that's figuratively your definition of a video game, it would only have any chance of being true if the ONLY games you ever play are JRPGs. |
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Post by thoothan on Oct 12, 2014 11:57:18 GMT -5
the definition of literally got changed recently felix hth
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 12:05:33 GMT -5
You will still never see the word "literally" used as hyperbolic exaggeration in a New York Times article or an academic journal, and it's only due to the insistence of said tweenage girls and their ilk that the definition was modified.
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Post by thoothan on Oct 12, 2014 12:18:21 GMT -5
You need to accept the evolution of the english language. It is a mutt, constantly flexing and melding, and it will always be a mutt.
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