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Post by Lash on Dec 10, 2014 17:27:33 GMT -5
Because most of those women, while pandering, also tend to have character designs rooted in one traditional martial art or another. For example, most of the time I can take Asuka seriously. Did you even read the rest of my post..? It's also a series where you can play as two different bears, an incest samurai, a tree person with changing genders, multiple robots, and a boxing kangaroo. I'm not seeing why a girl wearing cat cosplay is somehow "controversial" for Tekken. I guess I'm going to have to explain my initial post even better, because you didn't quote anything past one sentence. Two reasons. First reason I thought I had already covered: Tekken is retarded half of the time, yes. This character doesn't really seem to please much of anyone on either side of the field (serious or humorous). The reason I think a boxing velociraptor is more interesting of a design than a cliche girl in cat outfit is because, it is. The definition of humor is pretty much focused on the element of surprise, sometimes hinted with irony. (I'd say a boxing velociraptor is a little more spontaneous in theory.) Do people laugh at dull jokes or ones they better understand the punchline of? Sure, when they don't know exactly when it will be delivered. This brings me to reason #2. No one saw this character coming, so it must be amusing right? Not really. Not when you only get a few new characters every game and they want you to believe one of them was wasted on not only a joke character, but a joke character that doesn't look like it's going to live up to the already overwhelming assortment from games prior. It's far more likely Lucky is going to find fame on Gelbooru. She looks like she belongs in a Dead or Alive game, and from what I can tell, people don't seem to want that. Under the impression that she is a legitimate character, it's an awful thing to tease fans with when they're eager to see revealed content. I have no idea how this is considered controversial. I saw a god-awful design, and said "this is a god-awful design." I was convinced that whatever Lucky had to offer, be it serious, in humor, or sex appeal, it would not be worth it for me. Again, from the look of it, it didn't seem to be worth it for much of anyone. The problem circulating the "controversy" is that people like myself made a very obvious assessment of what we were given and some people, while probably understanding how those conclusions were drawn, didn't want to hear it. In having to explain myself, it makes me seem like this character is the end of the world for me, when in reality, I'm just saying she's an awful design. It's an ouroboros of triggered responses to a picture and triggered responses to those reactions. I still planned on buying Tekken 7 and have greater validity to complain than, say, someone who saw the Sonic 4 title screen picture and went on a 30 minute rant. Hell, I thought the only good thing about Street Fighter X Tekken was Mega Man, and look how that turned out. The timing of humor is everything.
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Post by JDarkside on Dec 10, 2014 17:28:46 GMT -5
Is there a difference between "sexy" and "sexist"? Well you already aswered your own question, there's nothing wrong with a character being sexually attractive or sexualized (cf Bayonetta or Skullgirls), however, having every female characters being a personified fetish (and generally without agency of their own) while male characters are more diverse is lazy on top of being kinda sexist. Pretty much. Jim Sterling made a good argument about this once. Male characters can range from just about anything, from stunning to ugly, complex to idiotic, and so forth. Female characters in the mainstream gaming world ...not so much. Things are improving, but about the only female character Jim could think of that wasn't traditionally attractive (and also wasn't a joke like a "lolfat" character) was the bad guy from a Primal Rage game, who was a space dinosaur. I'd throw in that Bloody Roar character who was a hard working housewife that turned into a boar, but she disappeared after the first game. Basically, no tits and ass, no major spotlight on the character. As for my views on the "sexy" and "sexist" thing, the argument goes that fictional characters don't have "consent" like real people do. It's their creator(s) choice to dress them a certain way, and if the focus is on pandering to a young male crowd's libido, the character is robbed of some power of agency. This wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't such an industry wide standard in both the east and the west. It's one reason indie games are getting more attention; there's more experimenting with character identity and diversity that is just impossible in the modern day AAA industry.
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Post by JDarkside on Dec 10, 2014 17:31:40 GMT -5
It's also a series where you can play as two different bears, an incest samurai, a tree person with changing genders, multiple robots, and a boxing kangaroo. I'm not seeing why a girl wearing cat cosplay is somehow "controversial" for Tekken. I guess I'm going to have to explain my initial post even better, because you didn't quote anything past one sentence. Two reasons. First reason I thought I had already covered: Tekken is retarded half of the time, yes. This character doesn't really seem to please much of anyone on either side of the field (serious or humorous). The reason I think a boxing velociraptor is more interesting of a design than a cliche girl in cat outfit is because, it is. The definition of humor is pretty much focused on the element of surprise, sometimes hinted with irony. (I'd say a boxing velociraptor is a little more spontaneous in theory.) Do people laugh at dull jokes or ones they better understand the punchline of? Sure, when they don't know exactly when it will be delivered. This brings me to reason #2. No one saw this character coming, so it must be amusing right? Not really. Not when you only get a few new characters every game and they want you to believe one of them was wasted on not only a joke character, but a joke character that doesn't look like it's going to live up to the already overwhelming assortment from games prior. It's far more likely Lucky is going to find fame on Gelbooru. She looks like she belongs in a Dead or Alive game, and from what I can tell, people don't seem to want that. Under the impression that she is a legitimate character, it's an awful thing to tease fans with when they're eager to see revealed content. I have no idea how this is considered controversial. I saw a god-awful design, and said "this is a god-awful design." I was convinced that whatever Lucky had to offer, be it serious, in humor, or sex appeal, it would not be worth it for me. Again, from the look of it, it didn't seem to be worth it for much of anyone. The problem circulating the "controversy" is that people like myself made a very obvious assessment of what we were given and some people, while probably understanding how those conclusions were drawn, didn't want to hear it. In having to explain myself, it makes me seem like this character is the end of the world for me, when in reality, I'm just saying she's an awful design. It's an ouroboros of triggered responses to a picture and triggered responses to those reactions. I still planned on buying Tekken 7 and have greater validity to complain than, say, someone who saw the Sonic 4 title screen picture and went on a 30 minute rant. Hell, I thought the only good thing about Street Fighter X Tekken was Mega Man, and look how that turned out. The timing of humor is everything. Fair enough. I'm not big on the design myself, but I also find it silly people are going so nuts over it. I'd like to see it go further in the crazy direction established here, but Namco's 3D fighters are getting really lazy with character designs now. Soul Calibur has become so phoned in. BTW, the Mega Man thing was planned before the split happened, and suggested by Inafune himself. It was probably far in the works before shit went down.
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Post by Tarsier on Dec 10, 2014 17:37:20 GMT -5
I don't understand why people care about a fighting game having silly designs. Fighting games are really silly-friendly as a whole.
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Post by Lash on Dec 10, 2014 17:41:43 GMT -5
Well if it makes anyone feel better I still think Rainbow Mika is worse.
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Post by JDarkside on Dec 10, 2014 17:52:50 GMT -5
Well if it makes anyone feel better I still think Rainbow Mika is worse.
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Post by Lash on Dec 10, 2014 18:03:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 18:17:30 GMT -5
I really don't think Gon qualifies as a Tekken character, being a guest fighter from a popular manga series (a hilarious and exquisitely drawn one, I might add)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 19:43:42 GMT -5
I don't understand why people care about a fighting game having silly designs. Fighting games are really silly-friendly as a whole. Excellent point. There is a time and a place for pointing out stereotypical gender roles in games. The versus fighting genre is not one of them. They are an exaggeration of an exaggeration, men and women. The main thing I'd like to see changed on that front would be the casual racism, but that's one of those "lol Japan" kind of things.
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Post by acidonia on Dec 10, 2014 19:51:56 GMT -5
Imagine people feeling offended about a girl dressing as a bunny in a gamer with farting bears, dinosaurs, kangaroos, dragons, ogres, high heeled-assassins, cyborgs, zombies, angels and demons, hundred year olds gigantic muscled dudes, and a bunch of scantly clad girls. I mean, it's pretty hillarious that with all this zaniness going on since the second game at the very least, people are NOW crying about this. It's pretty goddamn stupid. Tekken revolution almost had a female zombie bride as a character because of a poll. Somehow that useless guy from that CG tekken movie got voted the most and a characters just called Sexy female tekken force officer.Yet the same poll had things like a salmon that attack by laying exploding eggs and a preying mantis which according to the poll was ideas for tekken 3 they never used. None of thee characters are still in that game or any game mind you. Though making a new character just for western audiences is a stupid idea and just a waste of time. Though this is Namco Bandai a company that will not let the Gundam VS series leave japan just because they think no one outside japan buys gundam products despite the fact they rarely sell any outside japan or try to. Then go and make a PC game for western audiences using the same engine about super heros he still look more Japanese than western in style. Surprised no one seemed to think Nyotengu in DOA5 was a stupid idea when it was. So you put a old boss in and turned it into a female with wings that looks nothing like a Tengu. Despite the fact team ninja made loads of monsters for the Ninja gaiden series yet put zero effort into her design at all. If your gonna put a male or female monster in your game at least put in some effort into making it look like one not just shoving a pair of wings on it.
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Post by alphex on Dec 10, 2014 21:07:20 GMT -5
Regarding sexist vs. sexy: For one to find that character sexy would require the mindset of a 13 year old. Which, granted, is a huge part of the target audience. Still, that grown ups (that do not entertain certain fetishes) find it a rather, uhm, weird character shouldn't come as a surprise.
Also lolwut @ "you can't deny SJW ruined video game journalism and indie games". How many SJW themed indie games are out there, if they're such a huge lobby group?
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Post by JDarkside on Dec 10, 2014 21:30:22 GMT -5
Regarding sexist vs. sexy: For one to find that character sexy would require the mindset of a 13 year old. Which, granted, is a huge part of the target audience. Still, that grown ups (that do not entertain certain fetishes) find it a rather, uhm, weird character shouldn't come as a surprise. Sadly ...adult men of a certain set find this sexy. Granted, their sad, lonely otaku, and they're sexual kinks also come from heavy insecurity and have them gravitate towards "safe" looking individuals that don't have complexity to them that they don't understand. And that is why there's so many bloody anime about big brothers and little sisters being attracted to each other. Bad Japan, bad. *smack*
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Post by The Great Klaid on Dec 10, 2014 21:43:35 GMT -5
I don't understand why people care about a fighting game having silly designs. Fighting games are really silly-friendly as a whole. Excellent point. There is a time and a place for pointing out stereotypical gender roles in games. The versus fighting genre is not one of them. They are an exaggeration of an exaggeration, men and women. The main thing I'd like to see changed on that front would be the casual racism, but that's one of those "lol Japan" kind of things. Bleh T. Hawk and Dee Jay still make me uncomfortable. Although, for some reason not Balrog.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 10, 2014 22:03:30 GMT -5
Excellent point. There is a time and a place for pointing out stereotypical gender roles in games. The versus fighting genre is not one of them. They are an exaggeration of an exaggeration, men and women. The main thing I'd like to see changed on that front would be the casual racism, but that's one of those "lol Japan" kind of things. Bleh T. Hawk and Dee Jay still make me uncomfortable. Although, for some reason not Balrog. It's probably because Mike Tyson is essentially a walking minstrel show; Balrog's a downright sensitive portrayal of black men by comparison.
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Post by Discoalucard on Dec 10, 2014 23:59:45 GMT -5
Is there a difference between "sexy" and "sexist"?
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