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Post by akirikasu on Apr 16, 2015 19:20:30 GMT -5
From a purely computational perspective, the Saturn wins. It can display far more sprites on screen simultaniously, Can it really? Neo Geo has no background layers, everything is done with sprites. The Neo Geo can display 96 sprites per scanline. Which is a huge number except for the background-made-of-sprites issue. To compare, The Saturn can do so many that I can't even find a limit. Technically, due to the way the Saturn draws the screen, you can actually have an infinite number of sprites on the screen at the same time, but it may take it a while for it to generate that image. We can figure out something close to that. The lowest estimation I have ever seen for polygons per second is 60,000 by Electronic arts. Divide that by 60FPS and we get 1,000 polygons per second. But if we are drawing simple sprites that are not rotated, scaled, or deformed in any way, those are significantly less computationally taxing, so I would imagine you could draw many many more than that.
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Post by Weasel on Apr 16, 2015 19:46:31 GMT -5
Let's compare this by a very different metric: golf games. The Sega Saturn got a few of T&E Soft's golf games that they'd already been making, over and over, for a few years. Pebble Beach Golf Links was more or less the same as its 3DO release, FMV and everything; it's really boring (even for a golf game) and there's frustration inherent in the way the interface works. The Neo-Geo, though? Neo Turf Masters. Therefore, the Neo-Geo is the ultimate 2D golf game console. =P
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Post by Neo Rasa on Apr 17, 2015 8:25:11 GMT -5
Neo Geo has more games with Geese Howard in them so it wins.
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Post by alphex on Apr 17, 2015 9:02:07 GMT -5
Does it? Was it an emulated port of an actual remake?
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Post by kal on Apr 17, 2015 9:23:41 GMT -5
Can it really? Neo Geo has no background layers, everything is done with sprites. The Neo Geo can display 96 sprites per scanline. Which is a huge number except for the background-made-of-sprites issue. To compare, The Saturn can do so many that I can't even find a limit. Technically, due to the way the Saturn draws the screen, you can actually have an infinite number of sprites on the screen at the same time, but it may take it a while for it to generate that image. We can figure out something close to that. The lowest estimation I have ever seen for polygons per second is 60,000 by Electronic arts. Divide that by 60FPS and we get 1,000 polygons per second. But if we are drawing simple sprites that are not rotated, scaled, or deformed in any way, those are significantly less computationally taxing, so I would imagine you could draw many many more than that. It's more complicated than just polygons though, the saturn has 2d hardware as well and there's a limit to actually pushing polygons mapped with textures etc which is crucial to sprite graphics. Say comparing the run speeds of Tekken vs Tobal on the playstation.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Apr 17, 2015 12:24:36 GMT -5
Does it? Was it an emulated port of an actual remake? It was a port. Part of the Sega Ages thing in Japan. Same disc as Castle of Illusion.
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Post by tbb on Apr 17, 2015 14:31:58 GMT -5
Being a cartridge/chip set based medium is a huge advantage to the Neo-Geo for purely 2d stuff. Is it really an advantage to anything but loading times? Weren't NeoGeoCD games just the same games but with loading times (and not costing $200 per game anymore)? Anyway, Saturn wins hands down for me, not for power or anything (face it, any of the HD consoles can best either of these two on 2D, even if they don't get promoted as such, so there goes any notion of them being ultimate hardwarewise) but for games. So much of the NeoGeo library is fighting games, and if I'm gonna play a fighting game, and I'm not very often, it's probably gonna be something from Capcom, not SNK. But then Saturn also has other stuff besides a zillion fighters, Metal Slug, and Magician Lord, so of course I would go with Saturn for my choice. If you really like SNK fighters (or Metal Slug) of course you'd choose NeoGeo.
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Post by Reiji-kun on Apr 17, 2015 16:34:19 GMT -5
My own reasons for favoring the Neo Geo personally leans less on the fighting games and Metal Slug, and more on the other games it had before the heavier emphasis on fighting games that took over its library (which was probably early in the console's lifespan or so?). That, and because I'm a big softie for it because I grew up seeing a lot of the arcade machines, so it tends to be a nostalgic thing for me half the time.
If there was one complaint I'd have on the NG, it would be all the fighting games. Though at the same time, I can't really hold it entirely against SNK since they were trying to heavily compete/keep up with the fighting game market.
I admit that I feel more comfortable with SNK's fighters than Capcom's if I feel like I need a quick brawler fix, though I still like both companies' works by the end of the day.
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Post by IrishNinja on Apr 17, 2015 17:07:37 GMT -5
i'm a huge huge fan of the Saturn - i mean, it's unforgivable hardcore, haha. SHMUPs, arcade ports, fighers, racers etc, and sega putting their teams on new IPs in an effort to make sure it bombed hard out west. looking back, it's a beautiful thing that i didn't appreciate it its era, it's just a shame the scene is getting stupid-expensive for most us/some JP stuff.
Neo Geo is about the last console library im dying to dive into - ive enjoyed nearly everything ive played on emulation but just hoping for $ for a CMVS & good multicart one day to do it right. based on what ive played id give it to the saturn for variety though.
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Post by akirikasu on Apr 17, 2015 18:46:30 GMT -5
It's more complicated than just polygons though, the saturn has 2d hardware as well and there's a limit to actually pushing polygons mapped with textures etc which is crucial to sprite graphics. Say comparing the run speeds of Tekken vs Tobal on the playstation. The only part of the saturn I would call '2D' is VDP2, which only handles backgrounds; it's incapable of drawing sprites. All other drawing operations are done on VDP1. VDP1 can either draw images in one of three different ways 1) Directly to the screen, pixel-per-pixel 2) Two-point transformed - this is used to scale and rotate the image. 3) Four-point transformed - this distorts the image, generally to create the illusion of perspective. Polygons in 3D games are drawn with this four-point transformation. There are no separate 2D commands. That's why I'm saying that 1000 sprites is the least it could generate. There's no performance penalty because there are less calculations to run. It should also be noted that that 60,000 polygons per second was apparently an estimation based on one gaming magazine based on counting the number of polygons drawn in Daytona USA, which was a launch title. The Saturn is definitely capable of drawing more than what I am estimating.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 22:24:28 GMT -5
Neo Geo has Raguy. So Neo Geo wins.
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Post by Allie on Apr 17, 2015 23:01:39 GMT -5
Neo-Geo has Windjammers, therefore it wins.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Apr 18, 2015 11:10:44 GMT -5
Windjammers is definitely one of the greatest games. Blue's Journey/Raguy is great because you can tell ADK was like "let's make an Amiga platformer only good."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 13:40:58 GMT -5
Huh. I felt it was a spiritual successor to Namco's Marvel Land more than anything.
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Post by Allie on Apr 18, 2015 21:00:56 GMT -5
Windjammers is definitely one of the greatest games. Blue's Journey/Raguy is great because you can tell ADK was like "let's make an Amiga platformer only good." I really wish Windjammers would have hit the US Wii VC, since it was on the Japanese VC.
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