Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 21:38:05 GMT -5
You know, it's perfectly okay for someone to just not like the thing you like. Really! It is.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 20, 2016 21:51:05 GMT -5
You know, I just re-watched the ending of Evangelion again. Like Rei III onward. After having thought I lost my Platinum collection 2 years ago. So it'd been a while since I actually watched it. Which by the way I remembered so much of it. Which says something how good it is. And I also watched the Director Cut versions of them. Because I had watched them when I got the box set, but had a hard time with the differences as it was the second time I watched the show. And this time I noticed it brings up some points that feel like they came from nowhere, things like confirming that Selee knows the last angel.
And I had two realizations. That cut at the very least, makes the ending not so much a sudden shift as I always think it is. The other big thing is that that ending is still really strange. And it might be closer to what you were saying Darkside. Like it almost sounds like a cry for help. I always thought of it as the proof for my believing that the series is a deconstruction of Anime and the mind fucking it would give these people. Like the culmination of it all. Then I realized, particularly the last episode, they completely stop talking about the characters. And it becomes You, I, Me, Them. Because, I mean something in the lore might state that Shinji gets to determine how instrumentality looks. But, that made zero fucking sense to me for the longest time. And now understanding that Anno was going through some shit (Because I fucking hate using that word. Please understand.) It all makes a lot more sense. That's where it all falls apart. And the Congratulations scene makes sense. It's still funny as shit. For a few reasons. Most of them beginning and ending with goddamn Pen-Pen. But because it ceased to be about Shinji. Which in of itself is something I'm not terribly happy about. I like to divorce an artist from his work. But, it's clear that's not possible in this case. And it's still poignant as all hell. And still one of my favorite endings of all time. I had heard the legends. How strange it was. But nothing would prepare you. I also noticed that it doesn't properly start until halfway through the episode. I think.
Also, I totally forgot about Kaji. Particularly his relationship with Asuka. And how it changes nothing about how she reminds me of my first girlfriend.
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Post by Bobinator on Sept 20, 2016 22:05:27 GMT -5
From everything I've heard about Evangelion, even long before this thread came about, it always sounded like a confusing, pretentious mess to me. But if other people enjoy it, that's OK! I mean, speaking as a total outsider, I appreciate the effort involved in the final product, and I'm glad that there are people who understand it well enough that they can explain it.
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Post by GamerL on Sept 21, 2016 6:00:32 GMT -5
From everything I've heard about Evangelion, even long before this thread came about, it always sounded like a confusing, pretentious mess to me. But if other people enjoy it, that's OK! I mean, speaking as a total outsider, I appreciate the effort involved in the final product, and I'm glad that there are people who understand it well enough that they can explain it. The thing is, you don't have to understand it fully to enjoy it, despite all the craziness it's still fundamentally a show about cool looking robots fighting cool looking monsters with cute girls thrown in for added measure. At least the first half is, gradually the show veers off into weirder territory but it never ceases to be entertaining.
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Post by rainkaimaramon on Sept 21, 2016 9:09:11 GMT -5
Eva is something of a mixed bag for me, upon hearing how great and wonderful for years. When finding some DVDs at EB's world I snatched them up and enjoyed them, the action and monster designs was pretty awesome... Right up until Shinji gets absorbed it just dives right down, I couldn't even stomach the show anymore. Not because it became some show about character study, it became a study of flat cliché cardboard cutouts.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 21, 2016 10:53:20 GMT -5
I've always hated that episode. But that's fine. Not everything can be perfect. That episode where the power goes out and we've got the Children running around vents is pretty dumb too. You know it's a prototype of what their relationship at the end becomes, but it feels so silly. Like it fits in any other anime, but not Evangelion.
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Post by edmonddantes on Sept 21, 2016 19:58:03 GMT -5
Here's the thing, guys:
Don't base your interpretation of Evangelion on what other people say about it.
I think this is the mistake almost everyone makes--they read someone else's interpretation and take it to mean that's the one true or default one (otherwise known as "the problem with Game Theory fans"). The fact is, Evangelion works best--hell, only works at all--if you go into it WITHOUT any preconceived notions about what it "means" or what each scene represents.
Last time I watched End of Eva (which I consider optional, FWIW) I had absolutely no idea that any of it was supposed to be "a mirror of the audience." And because of that, it was a lot more meaningful because it means it was something I could think about and come to my own conclusions on.
If you're going into it already deciding that it's about this or that, then yeah I can see how it comes off as pretentious--pretentious art forces a message rather than letting you think for yourself. Evangelion though doesn't force a message, just it seems like it does because of its fanbase. Which just proves what I've always said: fanbases ruin everything. Or at least, they ruin most things. (Still bitter about the Metal Gear series going to shit because everyone hated MGS2...)
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Post by GamerL on Sept 21, 2016 20:13:52 GMT -5
Last time I watched End of Eva (which I consider optional, FWIW) I didn't see End of Eva until 7 years after I first saw the TV series, so for a good while I only knew Eva from the original TV series, but even then I would say that End of Eva is most definitely not optional, it's a stunning film on it's own that deserves to be seen, whether or not you consider it the "true" ending for the TV series.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 21, 2016 23:20:49 GMT -5
You know I'll agree with that. But I just never cared much for it.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Sept 22, 2016 3:03:16 GMT -5
Everone hated Metal Gear Solid 2!? Am I this out of the loop?
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Post by llj on Sept 22, 2016 9:35:02 GMT -5
I've always hated that episode. But that's fine. Not everything can be perfect. That episode where the power goes out and we've got the Children running around vents is pretty dumb too. You know it's a prototype of what their relationship at the end becomes, but it feels so silly. Like it fits in any other anime, but not Evangelion. A lot of the later episodes are like the episode where Shinji gets absorbed though.
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Post by Échalote on Sept 22, 2016 12:02:40 GMT -5
Everone hated Metal Gear Solid 2!? Am I this out of the loop? The bait & switch twist (among other things) did not go over well with gamers when it was released although it's less a case of universal backslash and more of being extremely divisive.
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Post by llj on Sept 22, 2016 12:51:20 GMT -5
Mostly people just hated Raiden.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 22, 2016 20:33:35 GMT -5
I've always hated that episode. But that's fine. Not everything can be perfect. That episode where the power goes out and we've got the Children running around vents is pretty dumb too. You know it's a prototype of what their relationship at the end becomes, but it feels so silly. Like it fits in any other anime, but not Evangelion. A lot of the later episodes are like the episode where Shinji gets absorbed though. Similar sure, but it's lacking something the rest have. It's like the ending bunch, but as it still figures it isn't ready to start giving answers it has none of the payoff the others do. You don't feel like you learn anything about Shinji then like you do later. Or like you do about Asuka later when she has the same thing happen to her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 20:50:08 GMT -5
On another note, I can't remember why I ever liked Madoka Magica.
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