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Post by Purple Moss on Nov 4, 2017 10:02:44 GMT -5
Haha, "xenophobe" is a bit too much. And could anyone really expect this to be localized?
If the current fan-made patch system doesn't work with this, you know this will be patched and re-translated ~3 days after release. The Touhou community is that dedicated (and it's not like there's a lot to translate, anyway).
Hopefully this will reduce the piracy that prevails in the international community. It has always been such a pain to get any of the games outside Japan. If you ask where to get them, chances are you'll be directed to a download site.
Any info on the price? I guess $20. What's the average price for a doujin shmup on Steam?
The games are good shmups, with varying degrees of quality. I play them every now and then.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Nov 4, 2017 10:45:34 GMT -5
Related note, what of the Touhou games on PS4/Switch is worth playing? I only dabbled a little into this series, it's cool this is on Steam even if it is Japanese only.
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Post by Woody Alien on Nov 5, 2017 17:16:28 GMT -5
I'm now recalling that it was said in recent years, ZUN realized how little of the popularity of Touhou is due to the actual games, so he basically wasn't that happy even with the actual fanbase of his own creation Take it with a grain of salt however, as I've never frequented any Touhou-related community. Touhou is still interesting and not to dismiss easily for how what was supposed to be a niche title generated, from the 2002 game onwards, such huge underground phenomenon; of course there's the all-female cast but it's not that the Japanese market has ever lacked "moe" stuff before and after. With the huge volume fanarts, doujinshi, music remixes, fangames of any possible genre released at every Comiket (doubly ironic since Touhou itself is a doujin title), even a few fan-made anime, you'd think it's some franchise handled by a big Japanese studio/corporation while it's anything but. Which is weird, considering how universally shit the art in the mainline games is. It's gotten a little better but I see it's still mediocre. The merit goes probably to other artists who've drawn the characters better. Dunno, it seems that every few years, in Japan, something that is intended to be niche is created, but somehow manages to explode and become hugely popular. Happened in 2007 with Vocaloid and again in 2013 with Kantai Collection. I agree with you consideration that Embodiment of Scarlet Devil (the 2002 Touhou game) probably came just at the right time, though. Touhou is pretty much the Japanese equivalent of Western "Bronies" from a few years ago (or better the other way around), meaning that fan artists came up with a "Touhou-fied" version of pretty much anything: I just saw the other day Touhou fanarts in the style of Cuphead, not to mention that amusing Splatterhouse remake featuring Touhou chars and aliens from several Z-grade movies! Anyway, I never liked it (admittedly I never was a bullet hell fan) and never understood its enormous success and its appeal beyond "cute girls with hair decorations and a mythological/fantasy background". ZUN also sounds kind of like a prick from what you're saying (and a drunkard, according to certain internet comments), but I don't think he's being xenophobic in this case. Speaking of random Japanese stuff that gains enormous popularity, who would have thought that an anime with horrible CG graphics based on a failed smartphone game could have become such a huge success? I'm talking about "Kemono Friends" and, while I never cared about it, it seems to have made a huge splash judging by the amount of fanart and stuff I've seen, not to mention the cross promotions in actual Japanese zoos - which led to the sad/hilarious story of the penguin falling in love with the cardboard cutout of one of the series' characters!
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Post by novicola on Nov 6, 2017 0:47:16 GMT -5
There's also Kentai (or something similar) collection, based on moe anthropomorphized navy ships.
These types of things aren't my milieu and I hate pop culture osmosis, so I'm cognizant of things of which I wish I wasn't, especially the fan porn. So much goddam fan porn.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on Nov 6, 2017 5:31:53 GMT -5
Moe just pisses me off. It's like someone took anime and said "Hey, eaters, let's throw out all the shit you like and keep all the shit you don't."
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Post by cj iwakura on Nov 6, 2017 7:29:58 GMT -5
Related note, what of the Touhou games on PS4/Switch is worth playing? I only dabbled a little into this series, it's cool this is on Steam even if it is Japanese only. None of them. They're all crappy doujin games. Which, of course, it's perfectly fine to translate. Haha, "xenophobe" is a bit too much. And could anyone really expect this to be localized? If the current fan-made patch system doesn't work with this, you know this will be patched and re-translated ~3 days after release. The Touhou community is that dedicated (and it's not like there's a lot to translate, anyway). Hopefully this will reduce the piracy that prevails in the international community. It has always been such a pain to get any of the games outside Japan. If you ask where to get them, chances are you'll be directed to a download site. Any info on the price? I guess $20. What's the average price for a doujin shmup on Steam? The games are good shmups, with varying degrees of quality. I play them every now and then. Honestly this will probably encourage piracy. The fan translated versions are already done, people will have to go through MORE work to fan translate this if the Playism release of 12 was any indication(which was modified to make existing patches incompatible).
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Post by GamerL on Nov 6, 2017 7:33:04 GMT -5
Moe just pisses me off. It's like someone took anime and said "Hey, eaters, let's throw out all the shit you like and keep all the shit you don't." Moe is such a vague term I don't even really know what it's supposed to be, is it cute girls doing cute things? I don't mind that, if we're talking something like Azumanga Daioh or Luck Star, but those seems more like sitcoms to me. I guess K-On! would be the most obvious example, but I haven't seen that one.
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Post by silentstorm on Nov 6, 2017 7:38:52 GMT -5
I have never understood the hate for Moe, it's not my favorite style or anything, but i have never hated it, then again i don't think i hate any art style unless i find it really ugly, like The Problem Solverz cartoon(don't even look for it on Google).
Seriously, unless it's downright ugly to the point of being offensive to my eyes, and those are only applied to rare few games and series, i really can't think of any style related to character designs or overall look that i hate.
Is it the idea of making characters cute or is it that they end up looking young that makes people dislike Moe?
That being said, since people brought up Kantai Collection, unlike Touhou who came at the right time and has a setting inspired by japanese folklore, i don't get why Kantai Collection, i never played the game, but it just looks like the typical F2P game, the story and setting doesn't seem all that interesting being mostly just WW2, but with girls replacing ships and being treated as soldiers.
I would say it's mostly because of perverts...but there is also a huge fanfic community and people discussing the setting and lore, people actually seem to like the characters to the point i have actually seen more than a few fanworks without any hentai or porn involved, so you can't just blame it on people being perverted, maybe if i actually played the game i would figure out what people see in this franchise because i just don't get it.
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Post by llj on Nov 6, 2017 11:21:36 GMT -5
Moe just pisses me off. It's like someone took anime and said "Hey, eaters, let's throw out all the shit you like and keep all the shit you don't." Moe is such a vague term I don't even really know what it's supposed to be, is it cute girls doing cute things? I don't mind that, if we're talking something like Azumanga Daioh or Luck Star, but those seems more like sitcoms to me. I guess K-On! would be the most obvious example, but I haven't seen that one. K-On! at least has something of a plot. The girls try to become a band. It's the only "official" moe show I own on blu-ray fwiw.
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Post by novicola on Nov 6, 2017 15:24:51 GMT -5
Moe is not just about pubescent-age girls -- it's not even necessarily limited to that as far as I can tell, however the vast, vast majority of it is. It's about infantilization, fetishizing baby-like behavior.
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Post by Bobinator on Nov 6, 2017 17:51:50 GMT -5
Moe is pretty much the worst, and it's more or less a dealkiller for anything it's in. I have played a handful of the Touhou games, but even when you get past that part, I don't feel like they're particularly amazing SHMUPs, to be honest.
I just don't get the appeal of the style. It's a bunch of characters that look practically identical in terms of body type. They all blend together about as much as a pack of Mortal Kombat ninjas.
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Post by silentstorm on Nov 6, 2017 18:54:35 GMT -5
Yeah, there is a lot of ripping off popular designs, but series that do that tend to be never be that popular or for their series popularity to die fast after the series ends, so general rule is that Moe anime whose popularity lasted for a while are the good ones and tend to have more distinctive designs(i mean, i can easily tell when a Lucky Star character appears in my screen), dunno if i would say it's as bad as Mortal Kombat ninjas, but i notice that there are a few designs or looks that are repeated with the biggest attempt to look unique, if even that, going into the main character.
Still, yeah, the Touhou games are not that great or amazing, with other factors being the reason that the series is popular to begin with, even ZUN, according to Gendo Ikari, has said that it's mostly the characters and setting that made the series popular, not really the games, even many of the fans don't care or play those.
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Post by Purple Moss on Nov 6, 2017 19:42:09 GMT -5
Honestly this will probably encourage piracy. The fan translated versions are already done, people will have to go through MORE work to fan translate this if the Playism release of 12 was any indication(which was modified to make existing patches incompatible). You mean 14. Ooooh, I didn't know that the Playism version was incompatible. After some quick googling I think the issue is already fixed; but you're right, Japanese-only and no easy patching will discourage sales in the beginning, and thcrap (the automatic patcher) isn't very user-friendly to begin with. -- You guys insist on moe. I hadn't really thought of it that way, and I don't think it's its focus, but, well, yeah, you do play as girls instead of ships or planes, against similar enemies, and some characters are loose female interpretations of Japanese folklore. Personally, it's not a big deal for me. It was one of the first shmup series I played regularly, so it sort of naturalized. I suppose things would be different if I had come from a long tradition of arcade shoot 'em ups. In my opinion, the appeal lies in how Touhou provides a sort of 'template-universe', from which fans are free to make their own interpretations based on the few details that ZUN writes. He is also pretty lax about derivative works as long as they remain in the doujin spirit (independent, self-funded). With all this, fans get a sandbox of characters, designs, music, and scenarios to play with, and despite being a niche genre, it's not necessary to play the games to completely understand, participate in and contribute to its world. ...I think that's as concise as I can put it, read this blog post (not mine, obvs.) if you have some more time.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on Nov 6, 2017 22:52:28 GMT -5
Moe is pretty much the worst, and it's more or less a dealkiller for anything it's in. I have played a handful of the Touhou games, but even when you get past that part, I don't feel like they're particularly amazing SHMUPs, to be honest. I just don't get the appeal of the style. It's a bunch of characters that look practically identical in terms of body type. They all blend together about as much as a pack of Mortal Kombat ninjas. That's a big part of my dislike. It's bad enough that it's got the whole creepy air of infantilization, but it's also so fucking bland.
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Post by Arale on Nov 9, 2017 16:03:14 GMT -5
I hate moe with all of my being; Touhou isn't moe. I will kill over this.
A big part of "moe" is girls being innocent and submissive. No Touhou characters are innocent or submissive. Every Touhou character is a violent asshole and they get in fights and drink alcohol all the time.
At the beginning of every game, the protagonists are investigating something mysterious that has happened, and to do so they decide to beat up random bystanders. Half of the bosses in the game are randos they beat up for information because they don't have any leads. They just keep doing this until they have an idea of where to go.
Honestly I don't even want to bump this thread but I really hate it when people assume that things with all-female casts are sexual or fetishistic. :T
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