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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Mar 3, 2018 10:15:53 GMT -5
Even those aren't undisputed, for example there was a recent gamefaqs thread where a bunch of people said they preferred one or more of the NES versions.
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Post by edmonddantes on Mar 3, 2018 10:35:37 GMT -5
On a personal note I sometimes feel like PC games get better when ported to consoles. Ultima III: Exodus and Might and Magic: Secret of the Inner Sanctum are both better on the NES than the PC (and even with all the fanmade updates to Ultima III on PC, the NES version is still superior). I'd argue that Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World plays better on the Sega Genesis as well (plus I really like its soundtrack), but that's largely a matter of taste. By that same token, Ultima: Quest of the Avatar (Ultima IV) on NES is also another great example. Honestly, that game got an even bigger upgrade than the NES port of Ultima III! The only thing Exodus has over QotA is its music, which is definitely a bit catchier -- but QotA puts forth a good effort to that end as well, and just has a much cleaner and more appealing aesthetic all around. ...However, the pedant in me does also feel compelled to point out that none of the Ultima games -- not even the Might and Magic games, I believe -- technically count as JRPGs, since they aren't originally from Japan. -Tom Ah, I missed the "J" part (and the guy above me cited Super Mario All-Stars which isn't even an RPG, so this topic seems to be going all kinds of off-the-rails..) You're right that neither are Japanese (indeed, Richard Garriott and Jon Van Caneghem both live in the good ol' US of A). I liked the NES Ultima IV (and love its title screen music) but I'm not entirely sure I consider it superior to the PC version. One thing I remember not liking is how you can no longer see monsters and yet the game seems to still have them on the map--as evidenced by how you can get random encounters while standing perfectly still. Putting that aside though, I need to give it another shot. And I need to play the NES Ultima V. What I remember is they tried to adapt U5's storyline into an NES approximation of Ultima 6's game engine (Ultima V PC played like a slightly-refined Ultima IV, and to be honest I'm with The Spoony One in that I didn't really like the UI of the later games). Also, you guys seems to have forgotten the PS1/Saturn Lunar games (e.g. the 'Complete' versions). Which reminds me, I still need to grab the PS1 version of Lunar 1 sometime. I mentioned the Lunar games, actually, since I was asking how much can be remade before it becomes basically its own game. starscream - Yeah, those Genesis M&MII oddities are confirmed bugs IIRC, I just didn't mind them.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Mar 3, 2018 11:02:55 GMT -5
Tales of Phantasia GBA looked ugly compared to its previous versions, and I didn't like the zoomed in camera (can you change it? I don't remember). But it is still worth a play and currently the only official English version of the game. The mobile port was delisted and was terrible to begin with.
That's an issue I see, ports sometimes get trashed because of graphical or audio changes. I know GBA and DS ports got hit hard by that comparison. Even Chrono Trigger DS I see recent conversations (because of PC version came out) saying you shouldn't play the DS port simply because of audio. What nonsense, it's a great port.
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Post by dsparil on Mar 3, 2018 11:57:59 GMT -5
Are there that many undisputed, absolute remakes, though? I think the line between "port" and "remake" is really blurred with JRPGs, since mechanics and important plot points more often than not remain the same. For me personally, everything that doesn't rely heavily original code or assets is a remake (since developers were involved in rebuilding the game from the ground up), which is the case for majority of mentioned titles in the thread - Chrono Trigger DS, for example, is definitely a port, but Final Fantasy III/IV for the same system are anything but. "Port" has a really specific definition, moving an executable from source code from one platform to another. The assets don't come into play at all so Chrono Trigger DS is definitely a remake. SNES games were still programmed in assembly which is generally not portable. This is a pet peeve of mine since the word gets used so loosely that all it ends up meaning is "has the same name". This came up a while ago, but GB and GBA versions of games get called ports all the time even if they're not even the same genre as the main game!
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Post by zerker on Mar 3, 2018 12:17:29 GMT -5
I mentioned the Lunar games, actually, since I was asking how much can be remade before it becomes basically its own game. Sorry. I was a bit late to the thread. Must have skimmed your post a bit. Since it's a detail midway through the last paragraph, rather than an explicit call-out, it's easy to miss.
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Post by toei on Mar 3, 2018 14:50:02 GMT -5
Are there that many undisputed, absolute remakes, though? I think the line between "port" and "remake" is really blurred with JRPGs, since mechanics and important plot points more often than not remain the same. For me personally, everything that doesn't rely heavily original code or assets is a remake (since developers were involved in rebuilding the game from the ground up), which is the case for majority of mentioned titles in the thread - Chrono Trigger DS, for example, is definitely a port, but Final Fantasy III/IV for the same system are anything but. "Port" has a really specific definition, moving an executable from source code from one platform to another. The assets don't come into play at all so Chrono Trigger DS is definitely a remake. SNES games were still programmed in assembly which is generally not portable. This is a pet peeve of mine since the word gets used so loosely that all it ends up meaning is "has the same name". This came up a while ago, but GB and GBA versions of games get called ports all the time even if they're not even the same genre as the main game! I saw one of two side-by-side youtube videos of Ninja Gaiden NES and Ninja Gaiden Master System. One of the first comment was "is no one going to acknowledge that these are two entirely different games?", but everyone else was just carrying on as if they were comparing two different versions of the same game, literally just because they have the same title. People are weird.
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Chezni
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by Chezni on Mar 3, 2018 21:35:43 GMT -5
Aren't the DS versions of DQ4-6 considered pretty good? They're excellent games, but I thought they were just ports of the PS1 remakes. Back to the original question, and my apologies if these have already been mentioned, but many Falcom games have been remade a few times over the years, and generally the remakes are good. I know the Ys games were already mentioned, but Sorcerian comes to mind as a really good example too. And the Phantasy Star remakes, released under the Phantasy Star Generation title, are generally considered great games as well.
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Post by Jungyin on Mar 3, 2018 21:49:51 GMT -5
Aren't the DS versions of DQ4-6 considered pretty good? They're excellent games, but I thought they were just ports of the PS1 remakes. There was only a remake of DQIV on PS1, DQV was remade on PS2, DQVI was never remade until the DS version. The DS version of DQIV seemed to be largely based on the PS1 version, though it wasn't a straight conversion: sprites are the same, towns and dungeons were condensed a little and retextured, battles were sped up. Can't remember if the additional chapter was in the PS1 version or not.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Mar 3, 2018 21:59:29 GMT -5
4 DS is based on its PS1 remake which itself is based on 7's engine. 5 and 6 were created from 4 DS's remake engine.
So you can say they are like offspring as unreleased PS1 games. haha I wonder if there are examples like that.
EDIT: Chapter 6 is in the PS version, checked a FAQ.
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Post by alphex on Mar 3, 2018 22:51:40 GMT -5
Gotta admit I'd forgotten about the various Ys remakes, although some of them I believe are just the same basic premise and story and have very different gameplay?
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 4, 2018 3:25:59 GMT -5
Gotta admit I'd forgotten about the various Ys remakes, although some of them I believe are just the same basic premise and story and have very different gameplay? Felghana and Celceta, yes. Ys I & II Chronicles, however, has the same gameplay as the original Ys I & II, but with certain improvements (like being able to move smoothly in 360 degrees, among MANY other things), so if you're distinguishing between remakes and reimaginings, Chronicles very squarely falls into the former category. Ys Book I & II for the TurboGrafx-16 CD is the same story. I still think Felghana counts as a remake, too, since even though the gameplay is significantly different, virtually all the level designs are quite faithfully representative of their original 2D counterparts, and the general flow feels more or less identical to Ys III -- it's a reimagining, but a shockingly faithful one. Celceta... yeah, that one's more of an edge case, as there's almost TOO much different from any other version of Ys IV to really count it as a remake. It's more like... a retcon, really. Most (but not all) other Falcom remakes, however, are 100% remakes, such as Brandish: The Dark Revenant, Dinosaur: Resurrection, and Vantage Master Portable. Brandish does add a bunch of content (a second quest, of sorts), but remains 100% faithful to the original game during a first playthrough, albeit with improvements across the board that basically everyone vastly prefers to any other version of the game. I've yet to hear anyone claim Dark Revenant is anything other than the definitive version of Brandish 1, really. And Dinosaur and Vantage Master are just straight-up the same game, with the same gameplay, but vastly improved aesthetics across the board. The Falcom titles I can think of that are arguably reimaginings rather than straight-up remakes include the Legend of Heroes Gagharv Trilogy (when ported to Windows PC, there were quite a few differences from the microcomputer original versions; also, there was a Saturn port of White Witch by Hudson -- I think -- that was COMPLETELY different, and then when Bandai ported all three games to PSP, there were further differences still), and Tombs & Treasure on NES (which was a third-party remake of Asteka II: Templo del Sol that basically took the original game and gave it... well, a story, and characters, and dialogue, and boss battles!). If reimaginings do indeed count, though -- and I think they should -- then I'd say those games also belong on this list, as Tombs & Treasure NES is *way* better than any other version of Asteka II (to an almost ludicrous extent), and the Gagharv games... well, they're a bit more debatable, but I feel the Windows PC versions of them are at least slightly better than the originals. -Tom
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Post by condroid on Mar 4, 2018 8:25:49 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure what the term JRPG refers to these days, but the PSP remake of Tactics Ogre is generally considered to be the definitive version of that game. That's more of a tactics game though, so it might not count.
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Post by tokenflipguy on Mar 4, 2018 10:42:36 GMT -5
The obvious ones are Complete versions of Lunar and Lunar 2. but if you like a more literal loc, it might not be your thing.
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