|
Post by Discoalucard on Aug 7, 2007 10:52:59 GMT -5
Oh, I understand that you probably know what you're talking about it. He doesn't though - it's not the responsibility of a board poster to know exactly who all of his fellow board posters are.
Just remember - everyone - that This is the Internet, and it can be way too easy to step on each others toes without realizing it.
|
|
recap
Full Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by recap on Aug 7, 2007 11:03:49 GMT -5
"He doesn't though - it's not the responsibility of a board poster to know exactly who all of his fellow board posters are."
Of course. But it IS his responsibilty to consider that the one he is replying to might be, in principle, at least as knowledgeable as he is, hence, to be as respectful as possible with him, as well as to be GRATEFUL when you're being HELPED.
|
|
|
Post by zzz on Aug 7, 2007 11:26:01 GMT -5
Ok, concerning a few of the points that have been brought up,
The proposed correct romanization of Super Oozumou should be verified by somebody else. It is not a great idea to just trust a lone source for this when all information about the game on the internet says otherwise. Whatever its proper spelling is romanized as correctly it can be changed to or left as. This is not really not that big of a deal.
Is Oozumou Tamashii's spelling correctly romanized as such regardless of pronunciation? How it is pronounced is irrelevant. We are only spelling it out. If it is spelled as Oozumou Tamashii, but pronounced as Oozumou Spirits than it is probably best to leave it as it is. A mention could be made of its pronunciation, but that seems rather trivial to mention that the game has some kind of notation in Japanese that it is supposed to be pronounced differently than it is spelled. Again, this is also no big deal.
The comment that the TG-16 Tsuppari Oozumou game was made by Naxat Soft for Tecmo means that it is Tecmo's IP, but that it was made by Naxat Soft. This fact is not even being contended, so I will assume that it was simply misenterpreted. Nothing in the wording contradicts anything that is being said or implies otherwise. As we do not have any concrete information about the exact process that went into developing the game other than that it is Tecmo's IP and that it was developed by Naxat Soft saying anything else would be pure speculation that can never be verified. So it is best that the wording is kept in its current simplistic form so as to state only irrefutable information, rather than state assumptions.
|
|
|
Post by kyouki on Aug 7, 2007 11:27:10 GMT -5
"Super Oozumou Netsusen Daiichiban" is wrong, as is "Super Oozumou Oo ichi ban." The correct reading is "Super Oozumou Nessen Ooichiban." "Oozumou Tamashii" is wrong, as is "Oozumou Spirits." The correct reading is "Oozumou Spirit." Note that "Samurai Spirits" is romanized as "Samurai Supiritsu" whereas "Oozumou Spirit" is romanized as "Oozumou Supiritto." So everyone involved was wrong and should now kiss and make up.
|
|
|
Post by Warchief Onyx on Aug 7, 2007 11:30:05 GMT -5
So, recap, when are you ever not a complete asshole?
|
|
recap
Full Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by recap on Aug 7, 2007 12:14:12 GMT -5
"All the information on the internet" - Yeah. About ROM naming conventions. Let me laugh once again. Just another good advice from me - Avoid to talk about subjects you don't have clue about. At least, about those you DO know you don't have a clue about. You'll thank me later. Blah, blah. You believed that Naxat developed the game for Tecmo. That's exactly what you wrote. And that's just bullshit and MUST be corrected as soon as possible, if somebody here cares about the quality of this site's content. Read: Naxat developed the game for themselves, since they published it. They just bought a license to other company which did have NOTHING TO DO with the game, like in hundreds of other cases, especially from Naxat. I guess you're kidding, but since the dumbs are starting to come to the thread let me clarify for you all: By the way, I forgot one word in Super Oozumou's name. It's "Super Oozumou - Nessen Oo Ichi Ban". As for separating Oo Ichi Ban, that's not wrong at all. The Japanese has no standardization regarding how you separate words. Is "Ooichiban" more elegant? Most likely, but who cares. Yeah, it's not plural, I didn't pay too much attention, to be honest. Anyway, in romaji, it could very well be "Spirits" instead of "Spirit", actually, despite what the kana says. The Japanese love to skip the "-s" of plural forms when they go from romaji to kana. But yeah, whatever.
|
|
recap
Full Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by recap on Aug 7, 2007 13:29:08 GMT -5
Found yet another pearl:
"Sendai no Tomio no Daiginnan - Famicom (1990)
Developed by Arc (of more recent Guilty Gear fame)"
That parenthesis, obviously, should be removed.
|
|
|
Post by Ganelon on Aug 7, 2007 13:51:08 GMT -5
Is Oozumou Tamashii's spelling correctly romanized as such regardless of pronunciation? How it is pronounced is irrelevant. We are only spelling it out. If it is spelled as Oozumou Tamashii, but pronounced as Oozumou Spirits than it is probably best to leave it as it is. A mention could be made of its pronunciation, but that seems rather trivial to mention that the game has some kind of notation in Japanese that it is supposed to be pronounced differently than it is spelled. Again, this is also no big deal. Actually, furigana is extremely important. I'm sure you've heard of Akumajo Dracula X Chi no Rondo. Now, why is it not referred to as Chi no Rinne as the kanji suggests? Because the generally accepted transliteration always involves the furigana translation, which tells you to use "rondo" in that case. It's your call but for consistency, the title is best written with the furigana in English (same with other games such as Samurai Spirit and Mizubaku Adventure).
|
|
|
Post by kyouki on Aug 7, 2007 14:41:48 GMT -5
Well, if we're going to be correcting people we should try to be as accurate as possible. The more people we have correcting each other the better.
I would be hesitant to romanize Ooichiban as Oo ichi ban for the same reason I would not romanize daigakusei as dai gaku sei. As you know, the whole point of romanization is to convert Japanese sentence structure to something more understandable to people whose languages use the roman alphabet. Splitting words like that makes it difficult to pick out words, since there are no kanji to guide your eye in breaking up the sentence.
|
|
|
Post by Revolver Ocelot on Aug 7, 2007 21:20:14 GMT -5
Man.. Japan... it's.... wow.
|
|
|
Post by zzz on Aug 8, 2007 1:24:08 GMT -5
The parentheses are fine. It works best that way given the infliction of the wording, and I don't remember writing that so it may not have even been my comment.
If the names of any of the games are changed than it should be mentioned in the text that the roms have different names so that people will be able to find them easier.
The wording that says that Naxat soft developed the game for Tecmo is entirely accurate. It is Tecmo's IP, so Naxat Soft was developing it with a license from Tecmo, even if they released it themselves. So they most certainly did develop it for Tecmo, because they would not have been able to develop a game related to a Tecmo IP without that license. The current wording is entirely correct and the most precise way to explain how it was made. There is no cause to change it just because somebody misinterpreted it when everybody else seems to have properly interpreted to wording.
This needs to stop immediately. I have only posted the above comments because the comments that are being made in this topic have reached the point where things are being brought into question that do not merit questioning. The arguing is happening at this point just for the sake of arguing. Obviously there are people who would place parentheses differently or differently word a sentence that explains that Naxat Soft made a game with Tecmo's IP, but those are not actually mistakes. The individual or individuals who wrote those sentence made judgement calls as to how to word them and did so with proper grammar and definition of terms.
BACK ON TOPIC!
Sumo wrestlers dresses as Sailor Moon characters is awesome, but these games are even awesomer. Has anybody actually tried these out? How did you take to them?
|
|
|
Post by zzz on Aug 8, 2007 5:07:24 GMT -5
The table of contents thing at the beginning leads to nothing. The urls are all screwed up.
I noticed that the thing in parentheses was removed. I checked the original text and this was not my comment to begin with, so whatever.
I also noticed that the sentence about Naxat Soft was reworded. Given that each word in that sentence was properly defined and contextualized, and nobody else misinterpreted it, its alteration bothers me somewhat. Are we going to see it become a regular practice here to allow people to dictate the content of the site by just being louder than everybody else? As I see it, there are two reasons that something should be changed. First is if it is verifiably factually incorrect. Second is if it is widely misinterpreted. I have no clue if Arc changed its name later and were involved with GG, but the sentence about Naxat Soft was not factually incorrect or misinterpreted.
Anyway, thanks for posting this up. It's worth noting that this is the first purely sports game themed piece that has been written for HG101.
|
|
|
Post by kyouki on Aug 8, 2007 6:28:03 GMT -5
Here are some more corrections on the titles: 1) "Tsuparri Oozumou" should be "Tsuppari Oozumou" 2) "Sendai no Tomio no Daiginnan" should be "Chiyonofuji no Ooichou" -- Number one is just a mistake in the romanization. -- Number two is obscure because of the sumo terminology. It refers to the name of a sumo wrestler, Chiyonofuji. Info on him can be found on wikipedia (including the Japanese characters for his name): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiyonofuji"Daiginnan" should be pronounced "Ooichou." This refers to the hairstyle worn by ranking sumo above a certain division. (Ooichou also is a kind of tree). I'm having trouble finding sources for this in English, but here is a Japanese wikipedia page explaining what ooichou is: ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E9%8A%80%E6%9D%8FFor one source in English, go to the EDICT web server page and search for "ooichou" (make sure to check the box to indicate you are searching in romaji). The Dictionary: www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1CCopy-Paste of the definition: "大銀杏; 大イチョウ 【おおいちょう(大銀杏); おおイチョウ(大イチョウ)】 (n) (1) large ginkgo tree; (2) ginkgo-leaf top-knot worn by makuuchi and juryo division sumo wrestlers" Japanese online dictionary with definition in English: dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%C2%E7%B6%E4%B0%C9&kind=jeBTW, very interesting article. I don't care much for sumo myself, but this has made me want to go and try some of these games.
|
|
recap
Full Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by recap on Aug 8, 2007 6:29:22 GMT -5
Actually, furigana is extremely important. I'm sure you've heard of Akumajo Dracula X Chi no Rondo. Now, why is it not referred to as Chi no Rinne as the kanji suggests? Because the generally accepted transliteration always involves the furigana translation, which tells you to use "rondo" in that case. It's your call but for consistency, the title is best written with the furigana in English (same with other games such as Samurai Spirit and Mizubaku Adventure). Actually, nope. There are not better or worse options in gikun cases, there's only one correct form, which is the only one which can be used. I explained it to Icycalm the other day here. To sum it up, the Japanese authors aren't actually using Japanese in these cases, they're using foreign words. They just happen to transliterate these words to the Japanese by using kanji instead of katakana. This is possible because kanji's pronounciation/reading is not actually a set, unchangeable thing, even if they have one or more "official" ways to be read/pronounced.
|
|
|
Post by Discoalucard on Aug 8, 2007 6:49:37 GMT -5
The thing about Arc was changed because I don't know if them and Arc System Works are the same company. There's no sumo games listed on their gameography, so I'm assuming it's simply a coincidence.
And obviously someone took issue with the word of the Naxat/Tecmo issue, and since you've done nothing to disprove anything he's said, I changed it to be less ambiguous. And in the end, does it really even matter about an issue this insignificant?
|
|