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Post by retr0gamer on Sept 13, 2009 4:33:19 GMT -5
If you liked earth defence force you really need to find a way to play Global Defence Force on the PS2. It only came out in japan and europe. It's basially EDF except way better with more weapons, levels, enemies and variety especially with the jetpack character.
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Post by kitten on Sept 13, 2009 4:59:24 GMT -5
Pretentious would be, at least for me, something that tries too hard to do something, and fails to delivers whatever it was trying to do. In that sense, Ikaruga would be the last game i would fit in that description. Maybe i'm just getting old, but a game that is fun and creative all at the same time is "pretentious"? To each of it's own indeed. If I remember correctly, Ikaruga is one of Kurt's 10 favorite games of all time. If you look at the HG101 article on the game, written by him, he even admits it's a bit pretentious.
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Post by Dais on Sept 13, 2009 5:34:13 GMT -5
it'd be nice if someone explained why they think it's pretentious.
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Post by susanismyalias on Sept 13, 2009 6:43:50 GMT -5
One of the things I like about Ikaruga is trying out new patterns and planning how to take on each stage. I'm still not good enough to blow everything up with perfect timing, so I really have to think still!
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Post by zzz on Sept 13, 2009 7:24:36 GMT -5
Wild Guns: Impressive translation of arcade-style to console, but there are already others like it on the arcade and are much more fun. Yeah, hold up. Tell me about these so called better games, I love Wild Guns! I don't think they exist. I've played every Cabal-a-like that I'm aware of (except one) and Wild Guns is hands down the best.
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Post by Dais on Sept 13, 2009 8:07:01 GMT -5
have you played Great Battle V (SNES) and The Wild West (DS)?
because if not: don't.
(well, Great Battle V isn't that bad, but it's not as fun as Great Battle IV, which has no Cabal-like sections)
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Post by sunwoo on Sept 13, 2009 12:05:06 GMT -5
it'd be nice if someone explained why they think it's pretentious. This.
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Post by cj iwakura on Sept 13, 2009 15:20:25 GMT -5
Ikaruga is a beautiful game, and I respect all the work that went into it.
That said, it's also evil incarnate, and I may never finish it. At times, it just feels unfair.
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Post by retr0gamer on Sept 13, 2009 17:08:24 GMT -5
The beauty of it is that it's never unfair, you just can't figure out how to survive. It's almost a puzzle game.
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Post by justjustin on Sept 13, 2009 17:54:48 GMT -5
we're all on high horses, we just ride different ones. pretty sure i also never said a person who doesn't play for score doesn't enjoy a shooter. i even said specifically that i used to not bother with it and still enjoyed them. but, we won't worry about that anymore.
and lol at me for claiming wild guns was topped by an arcade game... i just wrongly assumed. besides cabal and nam, yeah, there's nothing too great and I'll agree they're both much worse than wild guns. so natsume definitely deserves a round of applause.
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Post by sunwoo on Sept 13, 2009 20:26:52 GMT -5
My high horse is more comfy.
Also, Wild Guns is indeed a pretty cool game, no question there. If there's a choice i couldn't agree more on the list is that game.
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Post by Sturat on Sept 13, 2009 21:14:18 GMT -5
People who do not play for score in score-built shooters are not playing the entire game. It's not a different experience, it's less of an experience; ignoring an entire facet of the game because one is disinterested. But things like sidequests in an RPG have an specific purpose, a specific reward in-game. They either give you a special weapon, or let you know more about the story. A score in a shooter that doesn't really affect anything regarding the gameplay, extras or anything in the game has no other purpose besides showing the range of your skils, or heck, just how much stuff you blow. As you said yourself, is self-fulfilling. Someone skiping a side-quest in an rpg is certainly missing a part of the game, someone playing a shooter and not caring about the score is not missing any segment of said game at all. I strongly disagree with this. I normally hate it when message board discussions degenerate to people saying "graphics don't matter," but this is one of the rare times when it is appropriate. You can not say you've seen all of a game's content just because you've seen every background and every frame of animation. This dangerous fallacy leads to reviewers marking down every dense, high-quality arcade-style game for being "too short," and igames are much more watered-down because of it. (I realize quick resales are a bigger culprit, but reviewers shouldn't discourage short games.) Anyway, in a good fighting game or puzzle game, there is "content" that you still haven't seen after you've beaten the game with all of the characters. There are strategies and nuances that continue to emerge as your skills develop. Those are still content. In chess, when have you seen all of the content? Now the argument is already finished for head-to-head puzzle and fighting games, and we could stop there for Ikaruga since, as retr0gamer says, It's almost a puzzle game For the same reason that you wouldn't be experiencing all of Ikaruga's content if you played through the whole game without switching colors, you aren't experiencing all of the content if you don't try to solve the puzzles of chaining the enemy patterns. I also think that there's more content in straightforward one-player arcade-style games than what you'd see from just surviving through them. Trying to get through on one credit or trying to maximize your score is a completely different experience from just surviving through a game, (have you played a caravan shooter?) and the designers spent a substantial amount of time balancing the game to make that high-level play a rewarding experience.
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Post by Justinzero on Sept 13, 2009 21:15:47 GMT -5
Ikaruga is a beautiful game, and I respect all the work that went into it. That said, it's also evil incarnate, and I may never finish it. At times, it just feels unfair. You just need to get past that stupid boss at the end of level 4. While level 5 is hard as nails, its end boss is actually kind of easy compared to the rest of the game.
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Post by susanismyalias on Sept 13, 2009 21:18:42 GMT -5
Ikaruga is a beautiful game, and I respect all the work that went into it. That said, it's also evil incarnate, and I may never finish it. At times, it just feels unfair. You just need to get past that stupid boss at the end of level 4. While level 5 is hard as nails, its end boss is actually kind of easy compared to the rest of the game. Level fucking 4 boss is fucking where I fucking die every fucking time. Yeah, I'm bitter a bit. And I would have to agree with whoever said that it's almost a puzzle game. It's a game based on the refined reflexes and hand-eye coordination of a shmup with the problem solving of a puzzle.
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Post by Discoalucard on Sept 13, 2009 22:08:02 GMT -5
I love Ikaruga more than practically any shooter out there, but the boss of level 3 is aggravating, and I hate the entirety of level 4.
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