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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 18, 2010 2:35:14 GMT -5
Let's say they were hairy all over, and had cat noses and such, but were otherwise very human - humanoid form, bipedal movement, opposable digits, etc. And fully capable of speech, with a highly evolved intellect.
Can you honestly say you'd have absolutely NO curiosity about it whatsoever? Like, the thought wouldn't even cross your mind FOR A SECOND?
-Tom
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Post by Mr. Faptastic on Mar 18, 2010 3:29:52 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd probably just start killing them. Just straight-up brutalizing 'em left and right.
Why? Because they are obviously alien bastards come to Earth to steal our resources and use us as cheap slave labor. That, or they're genetic monstrosities created by some unethical scientists playing God. Either way, better kill 'em all before they get the idea to do the same to us, eh?
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 18, 2010 3:41:21 GMT -5
You're a meanie. (:
-Tom
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Post by Mr. Faptastic on Mar 18, 2010 4:00:04 GMT -5
Nice species finish last.
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Post by kal on Mar 18, 2010 8:21:20 GMT -5
Nice species finish last.
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Post by Smithee of Zur-En-Arrh on Mar 18, 2010 11:06:20 GMT -5
Let's say they were hairy all over, and had cat noses and such, but were otherwise very human - humanoid form, bipedal movement, opposable digits, etc. And fully capable of speech, with a highly evolved intellect. Can you honestly say you'd have absolutely NO curiosity about it whatsoever? Like, the thought wouldn't even cross your mind FOR A SECOND? -Tom Well, then yeah, it'd probably cross my mind briefly, but everybody thinks about what'd be like to screw anything.
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Post by syntheticgerbil on Mar 18, 2010 13:23:57 GMT -5
I think the thing that's always bothered me about anti-furries is the idea that sexualized furry art is in some way worse than sexualized anime art (i.e. your standard "vanilla" hentai). Like, draw naked sexy art of Naru from Love Hina, or Nenene from R.O.D. the TV, or any other non-loli anime character of your choice, and it's fine... but draw naked sexy art of Princess Sally from Sonic the Hedgehog SatAM, or Morgana MacCawber from Darkwing Duck, or Minnie Mouse, and suddenly, it's horribly objectionable! Not that I'm against sexy art which I prefer in the pin-up girl type vein, but you are not making the distinction that the former is still a depiction of a human, even if exaggerated, while the latter borderlines on bestiality, but is not. That's what I find disturbing. What's would make it even weirder is, with the exception of Princess Sally and Morgana, none of those animal characters were created with their sexuality in mind or to try to weave any kind of budding sexuality or relationship story through them. The whole ultra furry style and sexuality thing really blossomed more in the 1970s in underground comics. Sonic was originally made to be appealing like a 1920s Felix the Cat, who was not created for people to fantasize about. It just seems like a double-standard to me. I mean, either way, you're sexualizing a cartoon character - what does it matter if it's a human, or a humanOID? The whole idea, I think, is that if that character were real, you'd find her sexy, and want to do things with her - but can any red-blooded male on this board, in all honesty, say that if catgirls were real (like honest-to-goodness biological catgirls, not just normal human girls wearing fake ears and tails or what-not), you wouldn't at least THINK about what "it" might be like with them? I know if alien cat-people landed here tomorrow and began to live amongst us, that thought would certainly cross MY mind! And would furry fandom suddenly become OK, then, since it would have a basis in reality? Honestly, no on all counts. I don't have any desires to have sex with any kind of cartoons characters or furries. If they were real and moving around, that would be even more creepy. And what about cartoon universes that mix humans and humanoids? Take Jessica Rabbit from Who Framed Roger Rabbit, for example. Is hentai fan-art of her sick, even though she's depicted as a normal human-looking character in the movie, just because she's married to a cartoon rabbit? I think Jessica Rabbit porn is sick, because she's supposed to just be a hyperbolic depiction of a sexual woman, just as Betty Boop was in the 20s (who also makes an appearance in Roger Rabbit). It's all for laughs in Roger Rabbit, Jessica Rabbit's proportions are overbuilt for comedic effect, not to get our biological drives to mate going. If she were real, she would split in half. All of the kisses in Roger Rabbit are silly. They depict sex with patty cake. People who watch that movie in order to take some sexual thrill away from it are missing the point. I don't really want to go on an on about this, because it seems to be boiling down to difference of opinion. Mine's really not going to change at this point.
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Post by ryochan on Mar 18, 2010 14:43:50 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd probably just start killing them. Just straight-up brutalizing 'em left and right. Why? Because they are obviously alien bastards come to Earth to steal our resources and use us as cheap slave labor. That, or they're genetic monstrosities created by some unethical scientists playing God. Either way, better kill 'em all before they get the idea to do the same to us, eh? You're mean. Anyway, go watch "Bagi, Mighty Monster of Nature" and see if you don't feel at least slightly bad for the poor catgirl in there (note: It's Osamu Tezuka anime)
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Post by Scylla on Mar 19, 2010 14:06:29 GMT -5
most of my cool furry friends also go to places like Anthrocon regularly, and talk about what a great time they have, and how it's really not that much different than an anime convention. Well that doesn't mean much to me because I'd say most attendees of anime and gaming conventions are weirdos too. Guys seem to have lower standards, though. They're happy enough to meet some people that like the same show/game that they do. However, as a woman I can't help but notice when they reek of BO, look like an absolute mess, speak like they have some kind of impediment, and, when they see that I'm not butch and by myself for second, they come up and start awkwardly talking to me. I'm not sure how I would place the percentages of weirdos, probably furry > anime > game, but that's likely just my biases speaking. Regardless, though, conventions have a way about bringing out the freaks from their basements. But here's an example of my furry experience, besides being a fan of Tail Concerto. I got a friend that has a webcomic, completely unrelated to furries, but he's got a friend with a very successful furry webcomic with a large fan base. How successful? She gets thousands of dollars thrown at her just to make a wallpaper or even for no reason if she happens to mention some problem in her life. The artist herself is normal, and her comic is actually pretty good by webcomic/furry standards. It's got romance but it's clean, and I don't think she's ever drawn hentai. So her and the aforementioned friend merged, so they're under the same hosting and share a message board. Immediately, the entire board was taken over by furries, which of course resulted in drama with the small group of non-furries that were already there. And in time, most of the non-furries left because many furries will dislike other forum members just because they aren't into that stuff. But occasionally I pop in to see how my friend is doing and such, and in turn I see all the furries posting. Like I said, 95% fit my description, and this is a very typical group of furry fans. It's not some strange subset or anything.
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Post by kitten on Mar 19, 2010 15:28:45 GMT -5
A furry webcomic message board is a pretty bad place to get your perception of furries. Nearly any webcomic message board is ruled by fifteen-year-olds. A very large portion of the fandom is young and quite eccentric, and those are generally the types you're going to run into that are outwardly announcing they're furry online (or are trying the hardest to represent that they are). These people I hate and generally try to stay away from.
A lot of furs - if not most of them - are very casually integrated in more "normal" online communities, often to the point of people not really even knowing they're furs. I've been part of the furry community for 6 years, Bobinator's a fur, Ike isn't, but attends cons with his girlfriend who makes a killing off of selling smut at them and I'm sure there are more on here, and I don't think any of us are very biased toward furry games just because they're furry (the only one I can think of that I really love is Tail Concerto).
None of us bring "furry drama" on board here, communicate using constant emoticons, display our fursonas/characters all over everything or really talk about anything furry at all. Most of my friends that are furs are the same way. The problem with your perception of furries is that it has been created only knowing those who are very outward about it online. The worst people in any fandom tend to be the most vocal, I'm sure as a fan of video games you're very well aware of this.
I'm not saying to stop disliking those people on that forum or anything like that, but please don't think they entirely represent people in the fandom. I'll be the first person to make fun of other furries on the IRC (in particular, bad art, art whoring and art worship from FA), and I don't mind people saying "lol furries are so - insert comical stereotype here -," but it's kinda harmful to be downcast on the entire fandom because of some bad run-ins.
For example, I'll often say something like "Man, shmup fans piss me off. They're so elitist." However, I obviously don't mean all of them or generally even the majority. I'm just ticked off at a vocal group of them. Likewise, I think the same criticism of the furry fandom is acceptable, but I don't think people should apply these stereotypes to the majority or have their view on everyone in the fandom tarnished because of those who are outwardly irritating.
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Post by ryochan on Mar 19, 2010 17:36:46 GMT -5
I'd also like to point out that not "most" of the people who attend anime conventions are weirdos, unless you count cosplaying as being weird (which a lot of people do) but then that's not understanding why people do it. On top of that, although I'll admit there are a lot of guys who will try to bother girls on their own, they aren't all that prevelant that I've seen, and I'm often on my own at a convention. Nor do most of them reek of body odor, as I can only smell really strong things, and if they did, I'd know that too.
I think what most of us are trying to say right now though, is that you seem to be judging an entire group of people just off of a few in a particular type of place. Forums, as said, aren't the best place to really meet a fan of most things, as a good 90% of forums are full of immature human beings. The other 10% are full of people who can hold good conversations, are mature, and aren't going to fit into your description.
Unfortunately, because that group does tend to stick more to itself, for whatever reasons, you aren't going to see them because they either aren't online, make their groups a bit more difficult to join, etc., because they don't want to deal with the dregs of humanity either.
And although I sympathize with your friend for the furry side taking over, I again think that you're just running across those who are in the group that give the entirety a bad name.
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 19, 2010 17:40:36 GMT -5
Very well-written post, Kitten. So yeah... what she said! (:
Also, Succubus:
The rest I'll buy (I've been to a LOT of anime conventions in my time, and BO certainly can be a problem!), but you can't really hold this against ANY fandom. As a heterosexual male who's been single for a long time, *I've* even been guilty of this sort of behavior, both in and out of conventions. I don't really see how "seeing a cute girl who's probably single, and attempting to hit on her" qualifies as weird otaku behavior, and not just NATURAL MALE BEHAVIOR. (:
-Tom
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Post by derboo on Mar 19, 2010 18:43:43 GMT -5
That said, natural male behaviour is pretty weird in itself
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 19, 2010 19:38:56 GMT -5
Oh, I'm certainly not saying it isn't. (: I'm just saying it's not really indicative of otaku weirdness. It definitely transcends otakudom. (:
-Tom
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Post by Jave on Mar 19, 2010 21:26:09 GMT -5
That said, natural male behaviour is pretty weird in itself Quoted for truth. I speak from years of experience. But in all honestly, I'm sure a lot of people, if not most, have an interest in something that could be considered outside the social norm.
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