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Post by Snarboo on Mar 23, 2010 15:10:47 GMT -5
I feel bad coming into this discussion so late, but I've been meaning to post my impressions on this for a while and was distracted until now.
Something I've noticed from those that don't participate in the sexual aspect of the Furry community is that they tend to downplay the emotional and physical appeal of anthropomorphic characters, usually saying "I just like anthros", which I think is a huge shame. It's sort of like saying you just like cheese without an explanation. Surely you don't enjoy something without having some emotional or physical connection to it, either the great taste and texture in the case of cheeses or how appealing anthropomorphic characters are to the eyes in the case of furs. There should be no shame in saying that you find anthropomorphism appealing, either from a design aesthetic or emotionally. It's even okay if you fancy them a bit sexually.
I use to abhor the sexual aspects of the Furry community but I gradually transitioned from hate to apathy to acceptance. I really don't care what adults do in private or how they identify themselves sexually. Yeah, I admit I don't like when it's grossly flaunted, but even that doesn't bother me much anymore. I feel people should have the right to choose who they are. Why can't humans choose who and what they find attractive? As long as no one is being hurt or exploiting parties that can't or didn't consent, I'm okay with it.
As for the game itself, whether the team hired erotic furry artists or not, it shouldn't effect the quality of the work. Even if the designs could be better, it doesn't matter so long as the team accomplished what they set out to do. Frankly, a lot of artists are a bit perverted, and I can understand that upsetting people, but I feel it's about time we separated the artist from their art. If the art is good enough on its own, so what if the artist is a pervert? If their perversions trickle into their work or they produced their art with it explicitly in mind, I guess that would be fair to criticize, but it still shouldn't effect the art itself if it is of good quality. Having not played the game, I can't say if it's any good, but if it is, it's good regardless of who the team was.
I actually do have some minor criticisms of the Furry community, but this post is already long enough, so I will abstain.
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Post by Scylla on Mar 23, 2010 15:56:38 GMT -5
I can understand the feeling of a work being soured to at least a minor extent by knowing the background of an artist. Satoshi Urushihara was mentioned earlier, and I do honestly think of his hentai when looking at his video game art and it adds a level of creepiness to his loli designs. And then there's Shunya Yamashita's art for Valkyrie Profile 2. Not only did I find his art weaker than Kou & You Yoshinari's art in the original but I also found the choice of Yamashita as the artist to be a bit insulting to the fans. The original was a very dignified game, with a strong female lead, and I felt like it was a step in the right direction for making respectable games for female gamers (not that it was necessarily targeted at female gamers). And then for the sequel they hire a hentai artist. Thanks. :/ Plus the hentai background obviously affected his work as the characters are much more sexed up than those in the first game, with stripper heels, big breasts, and glossy lips.
And then you got other background details that can affect people's enjoyment, like how some people can't enjoy Koichi Sugiyama's music after learning about his Japanese nationalist views.
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 23, 2010 16:06:54 GMT -5
And then you got other background details that can affect people's enjoyment, like how some people can't enjoy Koichi Sugiyama's music after learning about his Japanese nationalist views. I've heard Dali supported fascism as another example, and yet I still respect his artwork and find it fascinating. I'm of the opinion that an artist's personality, opinions or behavior shouldn't effect how you view their art. An artist is only human after all, and they have every right to their opinions. Then again, I feel that people don't have to like something if they don't agree with the artist. It's fairly obvious my views on this are fairly conflicted, but I still feel that art is valuable even if the artist is a terrible person. Edit: And I agree it's disappointing when a sequel is more sexualized than the original, especially when the original had great artwork. I admit I've been turned off quite a few games when the female lead is heavily sexualized.
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Post by kitten on Mar 23, 2010 16:22:14 GMT -5
Why can't humans choose who and what they find attractive? I didn't really want to say anything else, but people don't generally choose what they find attractive. Fetishes have been studied to be developed at young ages within the subconscious and are something one can't merely decide (you can obviously decide whether to outwardly declare your interest or to seek out stimulation via that interest, however). People have little control over what they have affinities toward, and so long as they, as you said, do so with consenting individuals and don't harm anyone, I don't see what the problem is... I just wanted to point out that rather ordinary-seeming factors can be cause for a fetish's beginnings and that people don't really "choose" their fetishes.
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Post by Scylla on Mar 23, 2010 16:23:16 GMT -5
I with you too. I feel conflicted on it also. On one hand, knowing something about an artist can sour things for me, but on the other hand, I'd never deny someone their talents no matter what they do or how nasty of a person they may be. I think it helps if the art and the unsavory background are unrelated. When looking at character designs in a game, it's not a big leap for my mind to drift to what other art the artist has done. But if I'm playing Dragon Quest and enjoying the music, I'm not likely to start thinking about Sugiyama's views on Japan's role in WWII. It's just off my radar at the time.
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 23, 2010 16:31:32 GMT -5
People have little control over what they have affinities toward, and so long as they, as you said, do so with consenting individuals and don't harm anyone, I don't see what the problem is... I just wanted to point out that rather ordinary-seeming factors can be cause for a fetish's beginnings and that people don't really "choose" their fetishes. I agree, but I mean choice in the sense of choosing who to date and be with. Physical attraction and fetishes play a role in who we are attracted to, but attraction is only a smaller part of a larger whole of how we choose our partners. I wouldn't choose to be with someone if they were abusive to me, even if I found them physically attractive. So it's more freedom in the sense of freedom to have those fetishes and attractions and not be judged for it. Does that make sense? Edit:I think it helps if the art and the unsavory background are unrelated. When looking at character designs in a game, it's not a big leap for my mind to drift to what other art the artist has done. But if I'm playing Dragon Quest and enjoying the music, I'm not likely to start thinking about Sugiyama's views on Japan's role in WWII. It's just off my radar at the time. Yeah, it definitely helps when the artist's opinions don't affect their work. I find obvious propaganda to be repugnant, even if it is technically proficient. There's obviously room for varying levels of acceptance and that's most important.
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Post by kitten on Mar 23, 2010 17:00:16 GMT -5
I agree, but I mean choice in the sense of choosing who to date and be with. Oh, yeah. Jeezy peezy, I hope I didn't imply for a second that people are beyond choosing who they want to date.
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 23, 2010 17:02:29 GMT -5
No no, I just realized I was being kind of vague there.
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Post by Atma on Mar 23, 2010 17:14:00 GMT -5
Satoshi Urushihara is fucking awesome and you know it.
Yeah that was my big contribution.
Anyways, back on topic pls?
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Post by syntheticgerbil on Mar 23, 2010 20:39:33 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that an artist's personality, opinions or behavior shouldn't effect how you view their art. An artist is only human after all, and they have every right to their opinions. Then again, I feel that people don't have to like something if they don't agree with the artist. It's fairly obvious my views on this are fairly conflicted, but I still feel that art is valuable even if the artist is a terrible person. Well thank you for understanding it's just an opinion. To me, everything that comprises the personality of an artist will some way or another show through in their art. Even down to things like style make me form opinions of an artist before even meeting them (at least with people at my company or school). I would hope just as many people could read me through my artwork to an extent because I feel like even when I'm doing commercial work at my company, what I'm drawing tells a lot to people who are perceptive to it. A good movie that touches on a lot of this stuff (but not fully) is Art School Confidential which I recommend. Many great artists are creepy, weird, or have major violent or sexual deviant problems, but there are probably just as many out there in the art world that don't. A lot of the artists I like, my perception of them is enhanced when knowing how wise they are or hearing their theories in major magazines or interviews. Sometimes I may find out more about an artist's close-mindededness which then only helps to spell out their shortcomings. To me it's a public thing, like celebrity, only less so because you hide behind your medium most of the time. In a way, it sort of depends what side you were on for the Shadow Complex argument, I think. But then some say video games shouldn't be treated as art, which is another story. But maybe that sort of explains why I feel like there were a lot of clashing intentions in Inherit the Earth in terms of style and art. The game design aspect doesn't seem like much was clashing at all, just more like people didn't know what to fill an adventure game with using an isometric tile based engine.
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Post by Smithee of Zur-En-Arrh on Mar 24, 2010 17:34:46 GMT -5
I like this one artist who does a bunch of awesome ink drawings, even though a bunch of them are S&M and eroguro and stuff. The thing is, I'm not interested in any of that stuff.
That's my contribution? I gotta find that one's name, I've got a webpage favourited somewhere...
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Post by drpepperfan on Dec 1, 2014 19:17:54 GMT -5
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Post by Bobinator on Dec 1, 2014 19:53:44 GMT -5
Ah, this thread brings back memories.
Too bad those Kickstarters never got anywhere.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 1, 2014 20:35:19 GMT -5
Ah, this thread brings back memories. Too bad those Kickstarters never got anywhere. I miss ryochan, she was really cool.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on Nov 25, 2016 4:24:55 GMT -5
Man I miss all the fun threads.
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