The Fall of Shmups

[michiyoyoshiku]

Shmups are still for some reason still huge in Japan but it's rare we see anything localized we do get some from time to time but the good ones like ESP.Ra.De and ESP Galuda stay in their homeland.

SNK said they wouldn't localize the newer Twinkle Star Sprites because there's "not a market for it" although this is SNK in SNK Speak that could mean "we're too lazy to localize this game"

Do we Blame SCEA again? the fact most gamers want their shooting of the first person Variety?

I myself didn't really get into Shmups until I got Ikaruge then later on I fell in love with Cave shooters, and Darius.

I'd kill for a PSP Darius collection.

[MRSKELETON]

SCEA Ports 2d games now so that's really not the matter anymore.

[Discoalucard]

They're not big in Japan either. It's really only a small (but devoted) cult that follows shmups. Technically ESP Ra De never got a home port either.

I can understand them not wanting to take the risk on Twinkle Star Sprites. It's a hard game to sell unless you've played it.

[Malroth]

Well, I don't think Shmups ever "fell" stateside per se. There's never been a large market, so they've gone relatively unnoticed.

It's kinda funny though. There will be days where I'll play Gradius V at college and people will flip out about the graphics, especially when I do the "laser whip."

[michiyoyoshiku]

I've been wanting to play Gradius V for a while now. the first game I grabbed for my PSP was the Gradius Collection, but it doesn't get much playtime those games are flippin hard.

Didn't Border down get a VERY limited Pressing? God that game is hard
you memorize a level DIE only to find the level you just memorized changed.

[recap]

"They're not big in Japan either. It's really only a small (but devoted) cult that follows shmups."

Indeed. And it's becoming less and less profitable.

[ahnslaught]

malroth said:

Well, I don't think Shmups ever "fell" stateside per se. There's never been a large market, so they've gone relatively unnoticed.

I gotta disagree with this - in the early 16-bit days, shooters were THE premier genre (or at least one of the more important ones) even in the states because of the heavy emphasis on arcade ports. It used to be like fighters, in that it would be a genre that would showcase a system's capabilities (parallax, tons of sprites on screen, rotation, etc.). Back then, each system had its flagship titles (R-Type and Gradius series on SNES; Countless others on Genesis), just like they used to have flagship platformers like Mario and Sonic.

I really have no idea why shooters fell out of fashion here as much as it did once the 32-bit days arrived, however. Maybe it was because each game became more and more difficult, and scoring methods became more complex and obtuse (Check out Battle Garegga information on shmups.com forums) that led to its downfall. Maybe it was the crazy popularity of fighting games in arcades during that time, that led to few shooters being even known in the States. Maybe it was the anti-2d policy - I don't know. However, in the 16-bit days, shooters were as common as dirt, and popular as any other type of game.

[michiyoyoshiku]

we're damn lucky Xyanide even came out

I was thinking though alot of the PS1s best games are Shmups one of the first games from SCEA was Philosma which was a top down Shmup

Is it too foolish to think Square will revive Einhander on 360?

[Neo Rasa]

ahnslaught you stole my thunder. The eighties in the US were DOMINATED by shmups in the arcades, and there are dozens of high profile ones that got various ports/etc. and had a high level of popularity.

I'd say they fell out of fashion here (and let's face it, everywhere) simply becuase of the marketing in the west to push 3D graphics. Obviously there are plenty of shmups that use them but it becamse such a trend to hype "3D" gameplay where you were in a virtual world. Anything where your plane of movements was confined like a shmup was considered old fashioned and out of date and inferior.

Kurt was mentioning the small but hardore XBox community in Japan, I wonder if Xyanide is their equivalent of Ikaruga in terms of a good shump coming out on a pretty much dead system that they'd have to import to play.

[MRSKELETON]

I think the time someone comes up with a good 3d shmup GUI and play style welll see them back, albeit in eight different direction, I do remember some really quality shmup space games that was essentially r-type in space, The colony wars games

[shido]

I don't think Shmups were that popular on consoles even in their golden age (the 8 and 16 bit generation). I mean, do you know any Shmup that sold more than million copies? The only one that come to my mind is Thunderforce 2 for the Genesis which I think sold that much. Oh, and there is Space Invaders, but it was before 8 bit generation.

[ahnslaught]

Shido -

Other than Mario and Sonic, I couldn't tell you any other game that sold more than a million. I would hesitate to say that TF2 sold a million, however - it was a first generation Genesis game, released at a time when the Genesis was trying to steal some of the market from the NES. It was never one of the "must haves" for the system; during launch, I'd rather say stuff like Ghouls n Ghosts was more popular. If I recall, it wasn't until Strider hit that there was a true system seller for the Genesis (Probably wrong, but it's my impression, FWIW). It's all kinda moot, though, since that type of information just wasn't widely available back then, so I have no idea whether any shooter sold more than a million in the 8/16 bit days. As I said, the only thing I do know is that there was a boatload of shooters available for all platforms.

You should keep in mind, though, that before Street Fighter 2 hit, basically everyone was at least aware of the major shooter franchises like Gradius and Raiden because every arcade had one of these machines. You also couldn't turn a page in a video game mag without seeing a shooter feature.

[MRSKELETON]

Franchise

* Mario (275 million) [78]
* Pokémon (143 million) [79]
* Final Fantasy (68 million) [80]
* The Sims (58 million)
* Madden NFL (51 million) [81]
* The Legend of Zelda (47 million)
* Tetris (45.2 million) [citation needed]
* Sonic the Hedgehog (44 million) [82]
* Donkey Kong (43 million)
* Dragon Quest (40 million) [83]
* Grand Theft Auto (40 million) [84]
* Gran Turismo (38 million) [85]
* Crash Bandicoot (39.2 million) [citation needed]
* James Bond (30 million) [86]
* Resident Evil (30 million) [87]
* Tomb Raider (28 million) [88]
* Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (27.9 million) [citation needed]
* Mega Man (26 million) [89]
* Street Fighter (25 million) [90]
* Tekken (22.7 million) [citation needed]
* Command & Conquer (21 million) [91]
* Mortal Kombat (20 million) [92]
* Kirby (20.9 million) [citation needed]
* FIFA (20 million) [93]
* Metal Gear (19.4 million) [94]
* Yu-gi-oh! (17.5 Million) [citation needed]
* WWE SmackDown! series (17 million) [citation needed]
* Halo (14.2 million) [citation needed]
* Warcraft (14 million) [95] - February 2005
* Harry Potter (13.2 million) [citation needed]
* Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (12.5) [96]
* Half-Life (12 million)
* Driver (12 million) [97]
* Super Smash Bros. (11.65 million) [citation needed]
* Metroid (11.3 million) [98]
* Battlefield (11 million) [99]



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_computer_and_video_games
What game HASNT sold a million copies?

[shido]

ahnslaught said:

Shido -

Other than Mario and Sonic, I couldn't tell you any other game that sold more than a million. I would hesitate to say that TF2 sold a million, however - it was a first generation Genesis game, released at a time when the Genesis was trying to steal some of the market from the NES. It was never one of the "must haves" for the system; during launch, I'd rather say stuff like Ghouls n Ghosts was more popular. If I recall, it wasn't until Strider hit that there was a true system seller for the Genesis (Probably wrong, but it's my impression, FWIW). It's all kinda moot, though, since that type of information just wasn't widely available back then, so I have no idea whether any shooter sold more than a million in the 8/16 bit days. As I said, the only thing I do know is that there was a boatload of shooters available for all platforms.

You should keep in mind, though, that before Street Fighter 2 hit, basically everyone was at least aware of the major shooter franchises like Gradius and Raiden because every arcade had one of these machines. You also couldn't turn a page in a video game mag without seeing a shooter feature.

There were a lot of games in the 8 and 16 bit generation other than Sonic and Mario that passed the million mark and we know about them. Some of them are even arcade games like Excitebike, Ghost 'n Goblins, Final Fight, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe and more. But I can't remember any Shmup I ever read about that passed the million mark or just sold really good (except for Thunderforce 2, or mabey I'm confusing with 3 or 4)

I know Shmups were very popular on arcades, but maybe they weren't so popular on home consoles so it's not so surprising that they died (on home console at least)

[megatronbison]

I think the death of arcades was the final nail in the coffin- part of the appeal I thought was getting to the end of a game with one credit, getting a small crowd and putting your name in the high score table with a sense of smugness like no other

Another problem was that they just started to get a little silly- although I think Psyvariar was ok you have to admit it isn't exactly an appealing game to the average person- it looks like dirt even in its slightly sexed up form- and you show it to someone with relatively no experience of Scrolling shooters and they are going to think it looks impossible- screens and screens of bullets by level 2 alone from what I remember!