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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 6:38:59 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't think much has changed for the mainstream media. Just nowadays what they push over all else are high budget, violent games. They are definitely less blatant about their biases, but they continue to push homogenisation of the medium, whilst doing so in a fashion where the most shallow of games are what is celebrated. There is a degree of gatekeeping there. No wonder the industry is so looked down upon. You only need to look as far as the TGA's to see the preference. It is like if the latest Marvel movie swept the Oscar's each year. It's a real shame that those who have such influence don't seem to appreciate video games as an interactive medium, nor the diversity it can offer.
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Post by retr0gamer on Nov 26, 2020 9:33:59 GMT -5
I think that's more to do with the realities of internet media. Videogame journalism is in trouble. In the early days you would have the likes of Jeremy Parish at 1up or Rob Fahey at Eurogamer covering weirder stuff and an effort to cover most releases on a platform. Eurogamer covered an import review of Persona 3 which made me take notice of that series and their import review of Demon's Souls got me so excited for it I imported it from Hong Kong.
Now they only cover the big games because they get clicks. The start of this generation was full of boring destiny articles because the game was so popular and now you get gems like Sakuna basically getting zero coverage from the big outlets because it won't get them the clicks they need for advertising. Couple that with the shit pay and work conditions and you have genuine journalists like Jason Schreier and fans and historians like JP and 1up alumni leaving journalism for better jobs and you are left with a media that is staffed with college graduates who are only enthusiastic about the latest triple A games rather than the medium as a whole. And before they can mature into a journalist that is excited about learning about the medium, they have left for better jobs.
But I also think it's a self fulfilling prophecy. They chase the clicks they are losing to youtube morons with cameras and doing so lose the wider audience that would be reading their articles because they are more trustworthy and are better content than a social media influencer.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 26, 2020 11:01:28 GMT -5
I agree with your assessment of video game mainstream media.
However, I see this as a general trend. Some other media types don't fare much better, imo. When I go to my public library the DVD/Blu Ray shelves are filled with loud, dumb, mostly violent movies and TV shows. I'm not generally opposed to that sort of thing, but there is only so much I can take. On the other hand, a decent drama or comedy is much harder to find. I'm also not sure if the Marvel analogy is so fitting: Those movies usually tend get a lot of media attention and critical praise, no matter how bland they may be or what regressive ideals they may contain. And Black Panther actually got a "Best Picture" nomination. While being a technically competent action movie, I wouldn't call it outstanding by any standards. I'm pretty sure the nomination was mostly motivated by Hollywood trying to appear progressive. And yet, I'd say Black Panther is anything but. Despite featuring black lead characters, it paints a variant of "the noble savage"-cliché: The fictional Wakanda is highly advanced in terms of technology, but at the same time it is a monarchy and the ruler is chosen by fighting to the death, if necessary. Brute force over wisdom and reason, how civilized. Wakanda also uses its advanced technology to produce and sell weapons, working closely with the CIA... (But hey: All the "cool" real world countries do it too!)
If anything, I see the similarities between big budget games and movies growing: Most AAA games try to be as "cinematic" as possible, while your typical Hollywood action-blockbuster likes to go for decidedly game-like physics and aesthetics.
Granted, a genuinely artistic and thoughtful movie like Parasite might win "Best Picture" from time to time. But, again, to me this is more about impression management, rather than being representative of the movie industry as a whole: Award shows are glorified advertisement events. The Game Awards do a similar thing by letting the occasional Indie darling win an award or two (at least they used to, when I still paid attention to them).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 13:03:29 GMT -5
Fair points, both of you. I think though windfisch the difference in the film industry is that whilst the blockbusters may still pay the bills, there is an understanding of what exactly those are and who they are for. They may get plenty of praise, but the line will get drawn somewhere. More importantly though with film critics is an appreciation that films are and should be for everyone, and genre's, budgets and audience are considered. In game media, unfortunately, I don't believe this is the case. I must say though nowadays I have moved away from reading them with the exception of the odd article that's maybe shoved under my nose. I find most of my recommendations from sites like this one, where I can find like-minded people talking about their own experiences with a game. Oh, and Black Panther was pretty bad. Edit: I wrote 'their' instead of 'there', and being utterly disappointed in myself I had to change it.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 26, 2020 14:46:01 GMT -5
excelsiorTo be fair, one will also find praise for Indie games on mainstream sites like IGN (no matter how much I dislike that publication). Naturally most "News", "Guides" and "Specials" will be about AAA games for rea$on$ I cannot quite put my finger on.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Nov 26, 2020 17:59:53 GMT -5
Is there even a single decent site that just does general gaming news these days? Usually at least half of it is useless articles that aren't really news. It's like with any medium, really; you gotta dig up interesting stuff yourself. I do generally find it easier to keep up with good obscure movies, but that's probably also due to the fact that there are just approx. one million games coming out each day nowadays. You only need to look as far as the TGA's to see the preference. The Game Awards are just so stupid, honestly even worse than the Oscars. Award shows are just stupid in general, but for games they just make no sense. It's one of those gaming-related things where they seem to be ashamed of video games. Their site just looks so sterile and generic, and looking at its equivalent of the oscar statue, you'd never guess it has anything to do with video games. The categories don't really take advantage of all that the medium has to offer either. I mean, nobody takes them seriously at all. Every site/publication has their own game of the year that gets just as much press and I don't think a single person on earth can name any of the previous winners of GOTY at TGA anyway. Now they only cover the big games because they get clicks. The start of this generation was full of boring destiny articles because the game was so popular and now you get gems like Sakuna basically getting zero coverage from the big outlets because it won't get them the clicks they need for advertising. God, the amount of articles written past year on Fallout 76, Google Stadia and Marvel whatever-the-fuck-that-game-is-called even though everybody agrees those things all suck is just insane. So many games that would deserve the spotlight instead. Indie games usually only get any attention from gaming sites after they've already become a success. (Incidentally, I find 6/10 the perfect grade for Mega Man X) However, I see this as a general trend. Some other media types don't fare much better, imo. When I go to my public library the DVD/Blu Ray shelves are filled with loud, dumb, mostly violent movies and TV shows. I'm not generally opposed to that sort of thing, but there is only so much I can take. On the other hand, a decent drama or comedy is much harder to find. I'm also not sure if the Marvel analogy is so fitting: Those movies usually tend get a lot of media attention and critical praise, no matter how bland they may be or what regressive ideals they may contain. And Black Panther actually got a "Best Picture" nomination. While being a technically competent action movie, I wouldn't call it outstanding by any standards. I'm pretty sure the nomination was mostly motivated by Hollywood trying to appear progressive. And yet, I'd say Black Panther is anything but. Despite featuring black lead characters, it paints a variant of "the noble savage"-cliché: The fictional Wakanda is highly advanced in terms of technology, but at the same time it is a monarchy and the ruler is chosen by fighting to the death, if necessary. Brute force over wisdom and reason, how civilized. Wakanda also uses its advanced technology to produce and sell weapons, working closely with the CIA... (But hey: All the "cool" real world countries do it too!)
Black Panther getting a nomination was just such a transparent move. I get that it was an important movie for a lot of people because it had a black main character in the biggest movie type these days, but there are many, many other black movies that never got any attention from the academy and are a million times better. I think Parasite was indeed kind of impression management as well, but at least with that one they could actually have it win, not just nominated, without it being ridiculous. Plus it's a great movie.
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Post by mainpatr on Nov 26, 2020 18:07:22 GMT -5
I agree. HOW many Fortnite articles are there? I am also sick of Godfall too.
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Post by retr0gamer on Nov 26, 2020 18:16:11 GMT -5
I agree. HOW many Fortnite articles are there? I am also sick of Godfall too. In Godfall's defense, it's about time someone made a game based around late 90's/early 00's graphics card box art.
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Post by mainpatr on Nov 26, 2020 19:39:28 GMT -5
Godfall is the most by committee game I have ever seen. Generic name(sounds like Titanfall,or God of War),generic gameplay,low budget.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 26, 2020 20:40:31 GMT -5
Black Panther getting a nomination was just such a transparent move. I get that it was an important movie for a lot of people because it had a black main character in the biggest movie type these days, but there are many, many other black movies that never got any attention from the academy and are a million times better. Exactly. And it's not even like there hadn't been huge action movies featuring black leading roles before. It's also not the first Superhero movie featuring a black protagonist (probably Spawn) nor the first one based on Marvel characters (Blade). No, it's only the first one set in that silly universe. And how many MCU movies exactly did they release prior to Black Panther, until they finally had the "courage" to be slightly more inclusive?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 2:15:29 GMT -5
Ah, finally we get to your real argument windfisch - you think Spawn should have gotten an Oscar nom. And you've held a vendetta for over 20 years. I see it now. retr0gamer - a lack of coverage aside Sakuna has been a huge success, which is wonderful to see. I believe the game was made by 2 people? I'm assuming you either picked this up or plan to.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 27, 2020 8:15:23 GMT -5
excelsior It shouldn't just have gotten a mere nomination, it should've won every frickin Oscar there ever was: Best disgusting evil clown, best living cape special fx, best depiction of hell and best edgelord power fantasy - Citizen Kane's got nothing on it! Seriously, I'd take unabashed camp like Spawn or Blade over the majority of MCU movies any day.
edit: Just look at it, it's a masterpiece:
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Post by spanky on Nov 27, 2020 8:48:22 GMT -5
Marvel movies peaked with The Punisher (2004)
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Post by dsparil on Nov 27, 2020 9:00:31 GMT -5
To stick with movies for a minute, what wins an Oscar is just as frequently about rewarding a career or correcting for a past snub as it is for what's actually deserving. Best Picture has always been a mess, and the switch to ranked choice (instant runoff) voting in 2009 when the field was expanded has had mixed results. Black Panther did very well critically and was the highest grossing movie in the US and #2 globally. It wasn't a perfect movie, but I'm fairly certain that it still would have been nominated even without any outside pressures and under the old 5 movie maximum for the category.
Movies and games have the same blockbuster problem for the exact same reason. It's gotten increasingly expensive on the high end, but sales haven't necessarily changed. It's easier to deal with movies since those numbers are easier to come by. The highest globally grossing movies of all time are a mix of all time periods when adjusted for inflation. Specifically for the US since those numbers are easily available, the highest grossing movie in pretty much any year is generally around $400m to $500m when adjusted unless there's a gigantic hit that does even better. However, the most expensive movies are almost all from the last 20 years even adjusted for inflation. It's just 1963's Cleopatra which was a catastrophe of suitably epic proportions and 1978's Superman which was the big budget spectacle of it's own time that actually get added. It's all just greater expenses chasing the same amount of money. That inevitably leads to sticking with the absolute safest bets for anything with a larger budget.
Games are slightly different of course, but there still are major similarities. It's undoubtable that even without hard numbers or even estimates that development costs keep going up. A modern Ubisoft game with a 40 minute long credit sequence can't come cheap! Nintendo was infamously caught flatfooted with the jump in staff needed for HD games. Looking at best selling lists, one thing that is very noticeable is that the number of games that sell in the low millions basically feel off a cliff in the transition from SD to HD, but sales on the high end still haven't really increased much outside of the most exceptional blockbusters. It's the same situation of higher budgets chasing the same amount of money. Nintendo doesn't quite fall into this since they operate differently, but I think the general principle still applies.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 27, 2020 9:33:23 GMT -5
Marvel movies peaked with The Punisher (2004) 1989
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