The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II - DISCUSSION!!

[llj]

I'm quite a ways into Act 2 now.

Falcom sure does loves serving up humble pie to your guys sometimes. I beat a boss while using a few S-Crafts, then the boss gets up, overpowered NPC comes out of nowhere and takes down the boss with 2 slashes. I mean COME ON! They did that kind of thing in Trails in the Sky sometimes too.

[X-pert74]

I recently finally started Cold Steel II over again, thanks to my having a new PS3 and getting the CS1 clear save I got working. I've made my way to the Garrelia Byroad in Act 1 Part 1; it had taken me three or four days IRL to make it to that point, and I made it to that point in just two play sessions this time. It helps that I'm not taking screenshots of everything like I was (since I've done that already), and I'm skipping the vast majority of the conversations and cutscenes I find. I'm glad Falcom makes skipping story bits really easy; while I would never skip this stuff my first time around, I love that one can do so by simply holding down the circle button, and it'll make everything fast forward super quickly. Much better than having to press the "confirm" button after every single text box.

[llj]

X-pert, now that I'm right near the end of the game, I have to say the carry over from CS1 barely if at all figures into the second half of the CS2. In fact, my 'main' love interest changed briefly during CS2 despite zero effort on my part to change it. I actually had to force my bonding points back to my original love interest even. All this is to say is that the relationships are really malleable in this game and the carry over save barely has any effect on the course of the CS2's story and gameplay, other than maybe the first 1/3 of the game. So, heh, there was no need to try to pry the CS1 clear save after all. Unless, of course, you wanted to carry over some costumes or an item or two.

[llj]

Finished the game! Whew, that "epilogue" was really more of an entire act. These Trails games have like 3-4 prologues and 3-4 endings. While there are certainly several loose ends at the end to set up the third game, it does give Class VII a much needed respite and sends them off on a satisfactory note. So, the wait for TOCSIII won't be as horrible as I feared.

[X-pert74]

I finally, finally, after a million billion years (or... half a year), fucking beat Trails of Cold Steel II. Holy shit. I am so happy to finally have this finished.



Overall, I really liked it! I'm a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge fan of the Trails games in general, so I'm always happy to get to play more of them <3 I ended up having my love interest be Alisa, though if I ever replay this, I'm leaning toward having my love interest be

SPOILER: Click to show

Princess Alfin, because she is totes hilarious

. And yeah, I seriously thought I was about to beat the game like three or four separate times, only for more story stuff to keep popping up! On one hand I'm glad the game is so packed with content and features (the snowboarding was pretty fun, lolol), but on the other hand, it took me forever to finish it all. I played pretty thoroughly too; by the end, based on my academy points at the end, I think there was only one side quest I missed. It was somewhere in Act II, and I have no idea where I could have overlooked it :/ I did get all the books and recipes though, and also beat all the optional Cryptid fights. And opened every treasure chest in the whole game.

Now, I should take a break from JRPGs... but I totally cannot wait for Trails in the Sky the 3rd to come out later this year!!! Ahhhh I need all the Trails I can get in my life <3 <3 <3


I do have one grievance to list, though; there are a handful of side characters in Cold Steel I and II who kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Characters like

SPOILER: Click to show

Rex and Margarita came across as one-note uncomfortable cliches with little to nothing going for them, and the fact Angelica is so imposing of her sexuality on other girls seemed creepy to me. I was particularly disappointed in Rex, because I hated him in Cold Steel I, but then he had a significant development occur when Garrelia Fortress was annihilated. He became serious when confronted with the brewing civil war, and stopped being so focused on taking pervy photos of girls without their permission. However, in Cold Steel II, he almost immediately reverts to being an unlikeable pervert again, like as if his character development at the end of Cold Steel I never took place. ugh.

[Feynman]

They seem to be setting up Cold Steel 3 as a conflict between Rean's sense of duty and his ethics, so that might be interesting.

Since the folks on the board who have been playing CS2 all seem to have finally finished, I'm now going to take this opportunity to complain about things, because I do so enjoy complaining!

- The final dungeon and final boss are obnoxious. They seemingly have no story relevance whatsoever and are just an excuse to dump a few more hours of dungeon crawling between you and the final scene.

- Why in the everliving hell is Rean so obsessed with Crow? I never activated any of his bonding scenes in the first game, so Rean only ever talked to him like, three times ever. And yet suddenly Crow is Rean's bro and he will stop and nothing to "bring him back." It's stupid.

- Even more stupid is the whole "we're going to act as a neutral party" nonsense. Like, the Noble faction is always, always demonstrably being bastards. Every time. And the Imperial faction is always shown to be upstanding and good. Every time. On top of that, Rean's group only ever intervenes on behalf of the Imperial faction against the Noble faction. When you only assist one side you aren't neutral, you dumbasses.

- This is a totally shallow complaint but the way Rean turns the bike is completely wrong and is practically the opposite of how you actually turn on a bike and holy crap it bothers me so much.

[llj]

Mar 17, 2017 2:55:10 GMT -5 X-pert74 said:

I do have one grievance to list, though; there are a handful of side characters in Cold Steel I and II who kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Characters like

SPOILER: Click to show

Rex and Margarita came across as one-note uncomfortable cliches with little to nothing going for them, and the fact Angelica is so imposing of her sexuality on other girls seemed creepy to me. I was particularly disappointed in Rex, because I hated him in Cold Steel I, but then he had a significant development occur when Garrelia Fortress was annihilated. He became serious when confronted with the brewing civil war, and stopped being so focused on taking pervy photos of girls without their permission. However, in Cold Steel II, he almost immediately reverts to being an unlikeable pervert again, like as if his character development at the end of Cold Steel I never took place. ugh.

Nice, you beat the game.

I don't mind those characters. You're building a world, and it's going to be populated by all sorts of strange characters. Not everyone needs to be likeable or charming. One of my complaints about the Trails franchise at times is that they are sometimes too sympathetic to everyone in the world, even the villains at times. And I quite like Angelica. She's hilarious and looks cool in battle (not to mention her ability to stun enemies on the field even when FACING THEM is incredibly useful). As for her overt sexual teasing, maybe it's just that she appeals to my bawdy side.

Mar 17, 2017 10:32:21 GMT -5 Feynman said:

They seem to be setting up Cold Steel 3 as a conflict between Rean's sense of duty and his ethics, so that might be interesting.

Since the folks on the board who have been playing CS2 all seem to have finally finished, I'm now going to take this opportunity to complain about things, because I do so enjoy complaining!

- The final dungeon and final boss are obnoxious. They seemingly have no story relevance whatsoever and are just an excuse to dump a few more hours of dungeon crawling between you and the final scene.

- Why in the everliving hell is Rean so obsessed with Crow? I never activated any of his bonding scenes in the first game, so Rean only ever talked to him like, three times ever. And yet suddenly Crow is Rean's bro and he will stop and nothing to "bring him back." It's stupid.

Rean is just a goody two shoes. You know, Crow was part of Class VII, and Rean is all into that togetherness stuff. And there were a bunch of mandatory scenes between him and Crow in the first game that weren't about building bonding points too.

I agree about the final dungeon. I can only think they wanted to end the game off on a happier note than they did prior to the "real" ending involving Duke Cayenne.

[X-pert74]

Mar 17, 2017 10:32:21 GMT -5 Feynman said:

They seem to be setting up Cold Steel 3 as a conflict between Rean's sense of duty and his ethics, so that might be interesting.

Since the folks on the board who have been playing CS2 all seem to have finally finished, I'm now going to take this opportunity to complain about things, because I do so enjoy complaining!

- The final dungeon and final boss are obnoxious. They seemingly have no story relevance whatsoever and are just an excuse to dump a few more hours of dungeon crawling between you and the final scene.

- Why in the everliving hell is Rean so obsessed with Crow? I never activated any of his bonding scenes in the first game, so Rean only ever talked to him like, three times ever. And yet suddenly Crow is Rean's bro and he will stop and nothing to "bring him back." It's stupid.

- Even more stupid is the whole "we're going to act as a neutral party" nonsense. Like, the Noble faction is always, always demonstrably being bastards. Every time. And the Imperial faction is always shown to be upstanding and good. Every time. On top of that, Rean's group only ever intervenes on behalf of the Imperial faction against the Noble faction. When you only assist one side you aren't neutral, you dumbasses.

- This is a totally shallow complaint but the way Rean turns the bike is completely wrong and is practically the opposite of how you actually turn on a bike and holy crap it bothers me so much.

About Rean and Crow - I read something really interesting about Rean's character development in general, over the course of Cold Steel I and II, and it goes into why he cares so much about Crow specifically. It's here - I recommend reading it if you have the time. I'll also quote it here (with the relevant Crow stuff bolded), in case it's ever deleted (for anyone skimming this thread, this has massive endgame spoilers for both Cold Steel I and II, and also a couple references to Trails in the Sky FC & SC) -

SPOILER: Click to show

Rean has a pretty simple and typical teenage problem, and that is a complex about belonging and who he really is. I think his quote in the first drama cd summarizes it pretty well:

“The reason I want to know is so that I can truly be myself. There's a Rean Schwarzer that I should have been all this time—the one that's your brother, the one that's Mom and Dad's son, and the one that's a member of Class VII—and I intend to find him.”

Considering that is just at the end after one of his big epiphanies (that gets repeated in Cold Steel II) and he still feels he’s clearly not there shows pretty much how bad actually is. Frankly, I feel that Rean may be just as screwed up as Joshua, but just like Joshua in FC he’s very good at hiding it.

But let’s start from the beginning. Since Rean has memories he has known he is adopted (this in contrast to Elise, who was told do 3 years before I think?). Now, being adopted can already be a big can of worms with identity issues. But we also have to add to that the noble/commoner divide and how Rean feels responsible as the reason his adoptive dad stopped attending noble socials gatherings (which he feels his dad belonged to). The result is that despite having of one the most loving families an adoptee could, he feels he does not belong there: an adopted son instead of a natural one, a commoner instead of a noble, etc. This leads to the beginning of the first game; Rean, having decided he does not belong with the Schwarzer family, decides to find “his own path”.

Now, a small distinction with this. While I will repeat this “lack of belonging” sometimes, this does not mean Rean doesn’t love or even feels responsible for those people. He clearly loves his family a whole lot, and even while hesitant he still consider Ymir his home. It’s more of a feeling of not being “good enough” or not fitting than of a lack of love, something I think we can all agree is fairly common among teenagers.

We’re good? Then let’s continue. Now Rean is introduced to class VII, the course starts, etc. We see that Rean still feels really insecure about his identity when he hides his nobility (again, likely a feeling he does not belong there). He also lacks a bit of a sense of purpose and is a bit bland, which is actually pretty genius when you realize that’s the point (which for bonus points, Falcom also managed to thematically join with a high-school setting to make it even more noticeable and archetypical!). That Rean is running away from his identity as adopted son of Baron and lady Schwarzer, meaning he is pretty much trying to make a new one as he goes along but doesn’t know where to even start; he doesn’t join a club despite being proficient with the sword and lute (and having friends in half the clubs!), he clearly refuses Patrick’s invitation to join noble’s gathering (though in that helps that he is a prick) and he really seems to only be comfortable when he’s helping others (i.e. denying himself).

Still, he generally improves through the game, and by the middle of ToC he seems to have more or less found a place in class VII, one he values a lot (and spends the game reminding us about it). But this place comes a bit at the price of denying his old spot with his family. Rean, now confident about finding a path, feels he can ditch his place in the Schwarzer family, and there comes the confrontation with his sister. In that chapter is shown how Rean had started distancing from her sister and family, likely in preparation. I think those scenes make pretty clear that Rean somehow feels responsible of his sister, loves her dearly and yet still feels he doesn’t belong with the Schwarzers. A bit of a hypocrite in that, which may also explain why he’s so blind to her feelings (Rean is dense, but he doesn’t feel that dense in his bonding events).

So, this brings us to his ogre power, and here comes the real problem. Rean seems to have control issues with it, but frankly they seem a bit different than normal. After all, the first time he used his power he managed to save his sister from almost certain death, and she never treated him any different for it. Not only that, his power seems to be an amplifier more than a sheer surge of strength; as a child is likely that his father (who is skilled enough to take down jaegers) could have managed him even in the worst case. But the problem is not the power in itself, but rather what it is. It’s a power from outside this world, that doesn’t belong anywhere else. Rean feels like he has inside him someone who is literally an anathema to every place he may belong to.

He believes that he can’t belong with anyone who has seen his power, as they have seen a place inside him that doesn’t fit anywhere. This is also why he trained under Yun Kafai and why he has so many problems with his power: he’s trying to squash it, to deny the power inside him so that he can fit in the world, while at the same time redirecting his whole life to protecting others (especially Elise) as the only “useful” part of his power (which is also why he is so much of a martyr without cause). This is why not even his family managed to crack down his barrier, and why he’s so reluctant about sharing anything about his power. Even at the drama cd, after 7 freaking months with class VII he still lets out this line:

“Rean: [Self-derisively] Haha... Having second thoughts about wanting to be around me? I wouldn't blame you.”

He has very, very deep issues with his power and what it means for him.

Still, the events of the old schoolhouse, the fight with viscount Arseid and the drama cd happen, and Rean seems to slowly be on the good track. I want to remark however that he hasn’t solved his problems, not by a long shot. Even after the intermission of ToC II he only managed to reach the conclusion that his ogre power is him and he is his ogre power, which only transfers the big issue he had with his power (a power outside from this world not belonging anywhere) to him directly.

And now we’ve reached the school festival and the ending of ToC. Everything breaks down. In desperation, Rean accepts another other-worldly power in order to protect his friends and confront Crow. However, in his worst nightmare, he ends utterly defeated. Not only that, he has to see how his friends risk his life in order to save him, the opposite of what he wanted and denying him what he saw as the only utility of his power. He wakes up, is rescued by his family and recovers a bit of the bond with them… only to again be a witness to his father being injured and Vita taking away the princess and his sister, all while his ogre power (his second power whose only usefulness was in protecting others) ended completely useless and maybe even worsened things.

Frankly, the fact that at this point Rean somehow managed to keep going is something of a minor miracle. It’s likely that his complete focus on reuniting with class VII was the only thing remaining in him and by this point he was already kinda broken inside.

But he manages to recover Class VII, and with it a bit of confidence. Even when the Pantagruel takes him it’s not that bad; it’s a bitter defeat surely, but with his sacrifice he managed to avoid anyone harming his friends through the use of his power by giving himself up (even if it was a bit pathetic). But most importantly, the intermission gives him a purpose again: the talk with the princess makes him realize how dumb his idea of protecting others without thinking of them was, allows him to partly redeem himself rescuing her and gives him an objective in the future in the form of Crow.

But why Crow? Well, Falcom hasn’t been very subtle about it. Besides the obvious implications of reuniting Class VII, Rean sees Crow as a reflection of himself. An outsider, with no sense of purpose in life that managed to befriend a group with seemingly no previous relation all while hiding a side of himself and a strange power out of the normal. Convincing Crow to return and giving him a place in Class VII is basically Rean’s way to show himself he has a place to Class VII and he belongs there. Redeeming Crow is crucial step to accept that he can have a place in Class VII.

Of course the world is not so kind and it steps brutally on Rean’s hopes. With Crow dead, there’s no hope of Class VII returning as he wanted, and it makes him doubt he even has a place in Class VII. In moments, his last shelter on what was already a half broken mind is destroyed. When he threatens Osborne he is completely out of his mind; the apparent lack of value of Crow’s life reflected in what he probably judged as his own worthlessness. At that moment, he probably wouldn’t mind if he was killed; remember that while Rean is passionate he is also pretty level-headed, so his OOC action probably means something.

And then Osborne, like the magnificent bastard he is, changes the situation with two phrases. To the broken teenager with no identity nor place to belong he gives him both: the son of Osborne and the national hero of Erebonia.

And then the time skip.

While the first time I was also mystified by it, after seeing it again it all clicked. Both the divertissement and the epilogue are not explicitly about advancing the story; at most they offer fragmentary views of events. No, their purpose is to show how Rean has stopped forming part of class VII. And by his own choice. Manipulated by Osborne, his own broken mind and self-deprecation, but by his own decision nonetheless. That’s also why he refuses to go with his love interest (whoever it is) or Toval; while he has problems with his choices, he feels that this is the only path in which he can belong due to all his (perceived) faults and problems (and Osborne undoubtedly putting pressure at the adequate points to avoid a realistic alternative appearing). The divertissement already has Rean admitting it explicitly, while the epilogue itself is the end of Class VII, in which everyone follows their path outside Class VII after their leader has done the same.


TLDR: Rean’s identity and belonging issues last through all the first game, and the second basically breaks him with them.

Also, about the "neutral party" stuff, I agree that that did stand out as kind of odd. I guess they were trying to do something similar to what Bracers are mandated to do, which is to not get involved in political affairs, unless innocent civilians and whatnot are in danger. Really, a lot of what Rean and Class VII seemed to do as a whole is very influenced by the Bracers' ideals, since Sara (as a former Bracer) extended said ideals into her teachings. I think Toval is right in that Rean really would be a natural at being a Bracer.

Mar 17, 2017 11:52:55 GMT -5 llj said:

Mar 17, 2017 2:55:10 GMT -5 X-pert74 said:

I do have one grievance to list, though; there are a handful of side characters in Cold Steel I and II who kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Characters like

SPOILER: Click to show

Rex and Margarita came across as one-note uncomfortable cliches with little to nothing going for them, and the fact Angelica is so imposing of her sexuality on other girls seemed creepy to me. I was particularly disappointed in Rex, because I hated him in Cold Steel I, but then he had a significant development occur when Garrelia Fortress was annihilated. He became serious when confronted with the brewing civil war, and stopped being so focused on taking pervy photos of girls without their permission. However, in Cold Steel II, he almost immediately reverts to being an unlikeable pervert again, like as if his character development at the end of Cold Steel I never took place. ugh.

Nice, you beat the game.

I don't mind those characters. You're building a world, and it's going to be populated by all sorts of strange characters. Not everyone needs to be likeable or charming. One of my complaints about the Trails franchise at times is that they are sometimes too sympathetic to everyone in the world, even the villains at times. And I quite like Angelica. She's hilarious and looks cool in battle (not to mention her ability to stun enemies on the field even when FACING THEM is incredibly useful). As for her overt sexual teasing, maybe it's just that she appeals to my bawdy side.

Mar 17, 2017 10:32:21 GMT -5 Feynman said:

They seem to be setting up Cold Steel 3 as a conflict between Rean's sense of duty and his ethics, so that might be interesting.

Since the folks on the board who have been playing CS2 all seem to have finally finished, I'm now going to take this opportunity to complain about things, because I do so enjoy complaining!

- The final dungeon and final boss are obnoxious. They seemingly have no story relevance whatsoever and are just an excuse to dump a few more hours of dungeon crawling between you and the final scene.

- Why in the everliving hell is Rean so obsessed with Crow? I never activated any of his bonding scenes in the first game, so Rean only ever talked to him like, three times ever. And yet suddenly Crow is Rean's bro and he will stop and nothing to "bring him back." It's stupid.

Rean is just a goody two shoes. You know, Crow was part of Class VII, and Rean is all into that togetherness stuff. And there were a bunch of mandatory scenes between him and Crow in the first game that weren't about building bonding points too.

I agree about the final dungeon. I can only think they wanted to end the game off on a happier note than they did prior to the "real" ending involving Duke Cayenne.

I think it's the high level of sympathy that the overall characters/writers have for nearly everyone, which is a big part of why Rex in particular really bothered me. The stuff he did should be enough to get him kicked out of the academy, but he never really gets more than a slap on the wrist for it. Though, I suppose that isn't necessarily too unrealistic, come to think of it.

About the final dungeon, it was a little annoying in the sense that it took me forever to beat the game, and I really just wanted to have it over with already. But I did like getting to play as everyone again, and the final dungeon's music is seriously incredible. Like, one of my favorite atmospheric tracks I've ever heard in any game. And yeah, the ending to the Epilogue I felt was nice, after the series of WTF moments that the Finale delivered all in a row. Also also, the divertissement makes me really want Zero and Ao to come out in English D: D: D: I think it would have been much more meaningful and impactful on me as a player if I actually had experienced Crossbell's games. blaaagh





EDIT: I looooooooooove the final dungeon theme. I know I said that already, but I do. <3 <3

[Resident Tsundere]

You can choose love interests in these games?

[X-pert74]

Mar 18, 2017 2:13:48 GMT -5 Resident Tsundere said:

You can choose love interests in these games?

Not in the other Trails games, but in Cold Steel, you can. It's ultimately not a huuuge part of either game, but it's there for people who are interested in it.

[X-pert74]

Trails of Cold Steel is coming out on PC this summer. Holy fuck! I was definitely not expecting this... but then, I wasn't really expecting TITS the 3rd to come out in English on PC either. XSEED and Falcom have really been knocking it out of the park lately <3

[X-pert74]

PS3 - PC comparison video Now Rean won't be so silent all the time!

[llj]

Wow, all that extra voicing is going to make this a pretty big file to download though. And it's already a big game.

[nerdybat]

Aug 3, 2016 14:20:53 GMT -5 X-pert74 said:

Have you played Trails in the Sky? If not, I recommend it because I loooooooooooooooooooooove Trails in the Sky. Trails in the Sky FC and SC collectively are just about one of my favorite games ever. They can take awhile to get going, but I ended up loving the experience tremendously.

Is it any good story-wise? 

[X-pert74]

Apr 8, 2017 2:18:54 GMT -5 nerdybat said:

Aug 3, 2016 14:20:53 GMT -5 X-pert74 said:

Have you played Trails in the Sky? If not, I recommend it because I loooooooooooooooooooooove Trails in the Sky. Trails in the Sky FC and SC collectively are just about one of my favorite games ever. They can take awhile to get going, but I ended up loving the experience tremendously.

Is it any good story-wise? 

Absolutely! As I said, they can be a little slow early on, but there's a ton of lore and character development which is gradually revealed to the player as they play onward, and it builds up eventually into something truly special and amazing. They're possibly my favorite JRPGs I've ever played.