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Post by Discoalucard on Jan 23, 2007 17:52:33 GMT -5
Well, that cultural article that went up last week has been met with some mixed responses. Some of the criticisms are justified (mostly the sloppy editing) while a lot of it stems from people totally missing the point of the article. What I do find amusing is how it's being decried for its rampant "Japanophilia".
I'm...still not quite sure why. I can understand being dubbed this if I was waving the "Japan is superior!" flag, but I wasn't. The article does focus more on the Japanese side of things, just because they're more foreign, and they're things we might not have a basic understanding of, so I thought they were interesting bits to add.
One of the 1up guys called HG101 basically like a love letter to Japan, and while I know he meant it as a complement, it still kinda struck me. Like 95% of the stuff on here is focused on Japanese games, but that's mostly because they're more obscure, with little-to-no information in English. If Deus Ex or Star Control didn't already have mountains of sites devoted to them, you'd damn well bet I'd be rambling about them too.
I guess it only really bothers me because of this one douchebag kid I knew in college, back when I was more into anime. He liked to accuse me of liking stuff just because it was Japanese, and that I was too stupid to like anything else. This, naturally, pissed me off, because it was a completely shallow assertation.
The reason I bring this up is - it seems in the past few years that there's been kind of a backlash against a lot of the Japanese culture exported to America (mostly anime), which causes people to be all inflammatory and judgmental. And, I mean, sure - there are some obnoxious people that like to overtly flaunt their interests in Japanese stuff. But they're not representative of the whole, and it amounts to retarded pigeonholing. I mean, in MY day, if someone complained that a game was left in Japanese rather than dubbed, they'd be laughed out of the place for being an uncultured twit. Now, you'll find more people than ever just accusing those who like the Japanese as being retarded Japanophiles or weeaboos, too stupid to realize that America is like totally superior. It's like you can't like one thing without hating the other.
But, then again, this is internet culture for you. This is mostly just ramblings. But, I mean, has it always been this hostile and I've just been naive all this time? Or was there a point where this hate really started building up?
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Post by kyouki on Jan 23, 2007 19:02:26 GMT -5
It's the internet culture! People are big macho tough guys on the internet and can feel free to be jerks and make crazy accusations based on the most insignificant shreds of evidence. Don't let it get you down. You've extended the invitation to anyone who reads the site to write articles on any games western or eastern that are obscure or unappreciated. Anyone who has a problem with the lack of western games should write up an article. Besides, there is Home of the Underdogs which while not nearly as thorough as HG101 is, is basically a massive shrine to... er... underdogs, with probably 99% of the games showcased being western computer games. Now I did know someone in college who blurted this out at dinner in mixed company: "I'd rather date an ugly Japanese girl than a pretty non Japanese girl." Now that is some Japanophilia!
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Jan 23, 2007 19:08:02 GMT -5
There was this image macro circling around the net once, "I'm a hard man on the INTERNET!" over an overly muscle-bound man. That pretty much sums up most of the internet populace.
Now go away whilst I pound through a brick wall only to rip open a black box, and then doing 100 backflips in the same jump...while walking on my hands and enjoying a fresh salad.
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HMD
Junior Member
jesus touchdown
Posts: 87
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Post by HMD on Jan 23, 2007 19:50:24 GMT -5
Kurt, you should see the rampant hilarity taking place over at Select Button (the new Insert Credit forums). There's a thread about your article there (obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be bringing this up). The first several posts are all like, "JESUS FUCK THIS DUDE'S A JAPANOPHILE!" Then someone says, "Oh wait, that's Kurt Kulata, of HG101 fame." Then other people who but mere posts ago were willing to rip into your Love Hina watching, Pocky eating, Ouendan>Elite Beat Agents arguing self, quickly changed their tune to, "OMG I LUV THAT GUY! WHY HASN'T HE REREGISTERED OVER HERE YET!?" I think they answered their own question, really (and God, I love IC and all, but anything involving them and a forum is just asking for disaster). And yes, all that Love Hina stuff I just said was a joke, for the internet critics/slow people.
I've pretty come to the conclusion that the internet (or the video game part) is pretty much a real life version of Samurai Shodown: A bunch of weirdos and freaks, each firmly entrenched in Japanese culture, fighting each other over obscure, vaguely defined bullshit, spouting out meaningless babble before, during and after each fight. What say you people?
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Jan 23, 2007 20:01:45 GMT -5
And yet here we are discussing this like cvilised people.
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Post by Discoalucard on Jan 23, 2007 21:25:53 GMT -5
Oh, I've seen the Select Button thread - I actually tried to register but I'm still waiting for the approval. I'm sure once I get it I'll be too apathetic to have responded by then.
The IC clan is weird like that. There are a handful of your usual otaku-types, amidst a number of "Japan is a bunch of pedos!" extremists. Watching them clash is pretty amusing.
I'm actually pretty surprised (and pleased) that this forum hasn't had any real problems in the nine months or so it's been around. The Dungeon forums got to be havoc pretty quickly, to the point where I'd come back from class and find my AIM window flooded with requests to ban people.
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Post by Drawesome(Dale) on Jan 23, 2007 21:30:28 GMT -5
I've pretty come to the conclusion that the internet (or the video game part) is pretty much a real life version of Samurai Shodown: A bunch of weirdos and freaks, each firmly entrenched in Japanese culture, fighting each other over obscure, vaguely defined bullshit, spouting out meaningless babble before, during and after each fight. What say you people? Yes I've never heard the online gaming community so perfectly defined, this could also describe most gaming magazines as well.
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Post by ninjarygar on Jan 23, 2007 23:15:27 GMT -5
I loved your article and it didn't at all occur to me that you were a "japanophile" or even an otaku, but that you were just very knowledgable about another culture. Man, I'm sorry your article can't reach those people who are so quick to judge and only want to attack the writer instead of listening to what he has to say.
It made sense to me! I agreed with the whole thing, and not once did you claim that japanese games are superior, or that the culture was better... in fact you compared culture differences in a totally unbiased fashion, that I really liked because it's hard to find.
That's actually how most of the articles on this site are written too, and I really like it.
You know what it is.... ooh.... well.... this is NOT GOING TO COME OUT RIGHT. Seriously... I... almost don't want to say it..... well here it goes.....
It's being in denial.
Alot of otaku-in-denial people really, truely enjoy japanese things like games, cartoons, manga... you name it. I think somewhere deep down they want to enjoy it with an open mind. But we're not from there. We're from America. If you enjoy things from another country more than the things from your own country... it's like admitting you're not where you want to be... in a way. You kinda see what I'm saying? If you truely enjoyed that stuff... then you'd be happier where it's more mainstream... easier to access... in your own language... stuff like that. If you can't be there though... if you can't admit that you enjoy it more than your own homeland's matierial... you MUST convince yourself that it's not worth it. That it sucks. That all the people who DO really enjoy it are just "japanophiles" or "weirdos" or "Japanese wannabes". It's not true. You can enjoy another culture's entertainment more than your own culture's without being a wanna-be... without being pretentious about who you are... but not everybody realizes that. That's why alot adults hate anime... they hate the big eyes... the jerky animation... the fact that the mouths don't move with the voices... crap like that. They can't openly accept it for what it is... they can't judge it properly because it's not from here. I'm not saying that every complaint is not sincere, but often times people are FORCED to feel this way about japan. I like to think I'm in the middle ground. I don't deny who I am, but I don't deny that I enjoy japanese games more than american ones. I don't deny that there are some anime that I like, and some that I don't.
And I don't deny that your article is a damn fine example of middle ground. I don't know you personally, but I wouldn't call you a japanophile judgeing from that article... and I wouldn't call you ignorant of other cultures either. I have a hard time ignoreing the masses of negativity on the internet either... I get more hatemail about my site than anything. I just believe that those who DO enjoy it, don't feel the need to tell you about it. Even if it's not accurate sometimes, it's a good mindset and it doesn't discourage you.
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grad
Full Member
Enlarge my avatar, yea or nay?
Posts: 129
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Post by grad on Jan 24, 2007 6:21:26 GMT -5
I haven't read the article you're talking about, but you seem innocent enough. Let other people say what they want.
Of course, that's easy for me to say: I don't write articles for major video game publications, and my thoughts aren't broadcast for others to scrutinize.
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Post by necromaniac on Jan 24, 2007 6:52:06 GMT -5
I think it's partly an evolution on "adults watching cartoons" that is still considered worse than mainstream gaming, and "cartoony" games are naturally just "for kids". To top it, most people only know japan for sushi, insane game shows and pantie wending machines and hentai, and therefore consider japanese entertainment as "too raw", "pervy" or jerking off to "children's entertainment". And some just don't like otaku culture for many of it's moé and clichés, but they are usually not that hostile about it.
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Post by kal on Jan 24, 2007 8:25:36 GMT -5
On the subject of your article I felt if anything it vaguely suggested that the Japanese gaming design principles weren't as player friendly (therefore gamer friendly). Mind you it was a balanced article and not really suggesting any Japan > You that it seems some people are suggesting.
I think it's just an issue where if you compare Japanese/American (and to a lesser extent Euro/Other) game designs and games people instincitively take a side despite the fact that no arguement has actual been raised. It's the same deal with fanboys(girls) if you say to a Halo fanboy that Doom 3 sets a better atmosphere of paranoia chances are they'll assume you're calling Halo bad and Doom 3 awesome because that's really want they understand.
Some people just have to take arugmentative or contradictory stands for some reason or another. You can't let the internet piss you off or you'll never be comfortable.
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Post by michiyoyoshiku on Jan 24, 2007 13:02:00 GMT -5
I'll tell you what I hate more than anything
the Mixing of English and Japanese words
ZOMG he is so Kawaii
and
You're so Baka (which doesn't even make sense)
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Post by ninjarygar on Jan 24, 2007 13:07:36 GMT -5
I hate that too. In fact that was a REALLY HORRIBLY animated cartoon on cartoon network that was doing that. It made pretty sick.
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Post by michiyoyoshiku on Jan 24, 2007 13:25:31 GMT -5
kappa mikey on Nick? or Puffy Ami Yumi on CN?
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Post by Gilder on Jan 24, 2007 15:07:26 GMT -5
kappa mikey on Nick? or Puffy Ami Yumi on CN? Both. Ugh.
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