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Post by akumajobelmont on Mar 12, 2018 2:11:08 GMT -5
I don't know about you, but I'm absolutely loving this Retro FPS resurgence that has been going on the last year or so!
Until recently, I thought I'd had my FPS fill for the remainder of my gaming life. But having played New Blood Interactive's DUSK and AMID EVIL (the EA is out now) to completion, along with 3D Realms new BUILD engine game, Ion Maiden - I know that that really isn't the case any more.
I'm not bagging out all new FPS games, but they're definitely not for me. I just can't seem to stick with any of them. These three though? I haven't been able to put them down until I finished them. And after that, I went back for more on higher and higher difficulties. The cynic in me wants to call them nostalgia grabs, but in all honestly, I truly believe that DUSK, Ion Maiden and Amid Evil don't just equal their inspirations, they tend to out-do them.
They take just enough of the last 20 years worth of genre progress, cut out the bullshit, and apply that to a retro template. Yeah, they're throwback, but they're all damned good games.
We've seen this resurgence of retro-throwback nostalgia many times before, but I don't think I've ever really considered any new-retro games to be on the same level as what has gone before, let alone better. And three of such quality in a row? DUSK, Ion Maiden and AMID EVIL are all going to be must haves once their done, of that I have no doubt.
Have any of you played them at all, and what do you make of them?
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Mar 12, 2018 7:31:35 GMT -5
I want to play both DUSK and Ion Maiden, but I have a few actual old-school FPSs that I own but haven't played yet, so they'll have to wait.
I think it's cool, considering that I do really like the 90's FPSs I've played (DOOM and Quake are in fact two of my favorite games I've played). It's weird to me that it took a while for retro FPSs to really take off. With how big indie games are these days, you'd think there would be more games that take after these type of FPSs. I guess they weren't quite as old as NES style platformers are yet or something.
I'm still wondering what "old-school impostors" the Ion Maiden trailer was talking about though.
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Post by Feynman on Mar 12, 2018 8:49:01 GMT -5
DUSK is great! I really like the two episodes released so far. Haven't played Ion Maiden yet, but it's a game I plan on giving a try very soon.
Amid Evil I also haven't tried yet, but of the three it's the game I'm least interested in currently. Quake with a Heretic skin isn't a bad idea, but the UI and textures and special effects Amid Evil currently has are discordant and kind of awful... there are multiple different art styles competing with each other and the result is similar to things like the mobile version of FF6. The game is still early access, so hopefully that stuff will get much better down the road, but right now Amid Evil needs improvement.
What I really want to see more than anything is a new game in the style of Hexen. Hexen's (and Hexen 2's) slower paced hub-and-puzzles gameplay is utterly unique in the genre, and there are no other games that capture the same feel. I enjoyed Hexen like a billion times more than Heretic, and I wish we'd see someone tackle that kind of game again.
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Post by akumajobelmont on Mar 12, 2018 9:59:13 GMT -5
🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 I have a hunch that the Ion Maiden trailer was referring to STRAFE, haha. Feynman, I thought that about AMID EVIL before I tried it, and I too wasn't sold the art. It looked pretty messy in every video I saw, and I was worried it was going to be a shimmer-fest. Having just finished it though, my first impressions couldn't have been more wrong. In motion, and in person, it just kinda makes sense. You're right though, it is definitely discordant at times, but I think it works to the game's favour. The UI could be more fitting too, but I never really noticed it in-game all that much. I took a few screenshots of things I looked particularly pretty - I really dig that the levels are almost an abstract interpretation of what they're supposed to be. There's shades of Lovecraft in there too, with some impossible looking geometry and alien looking structures. I love the use of colour too - there's a lot of it, and nothing looks dull for too long.     I did mention in General Chat that my order of favourites was Ion Maiden > DUSK > AMID EVIL ... I think it's now more Ion Maiden > AMID EVIL > DUSK, but damned is it close.! That could change come the final release of each game. They're all worth owning though - you can tell that each developer knows what made those old games good. Even better that they've done the formula's justice, and in most cases, improved on them.
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Post by Feynman on Mar 12, 2018 12:50:37 GMT -5
See, those screens have exactly the issues that make me want to smack the game's art director right upside the head. In the third screenshot, you've got modern reflective shaders on pixelated textures, a high-poly sword model with a low resolution texture attached (but still higher res than every other texture in the room) and modern shaders applied, and monsters from a PS1 game with textures have such large pixels you could fit an NES inside them (not to mention their comically low poly weapons compared to the one the hero is using). In fact, one thing I've noticed in every screenshot and gameplay demo is that the poly count and textures on the enemies are so low relative to everything else that they look like they belong in a different game entirely.
The last screenshot has that glossy floor that looks relatively modern far away, but up close (especially under the weapon) it's a pixelated mess, and of course has modern reflective shaders attached. And the pixelated floor under the weapon just highlights the fact that the weapon's texture is considerably better and less pixelated than everything else around it. Then the statues are in a completely different art style and of much lower quality than the entire rest of the room. And of course the ridiculous UI that looks like it came from a mobile game, complete with art that is higher res than everything else around it. The environment, the weapons, the enemies, and the UI all have wildly different levels of pixelation and model quality, like somebody took assets from several different games and crammed them together.
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Post by JoeQ on Mar 12, 2018 13:08:20 GMT -5
Slightly beside the point, but I'd love to see Devil Daggers expanded into a full retro-FPS. That game has such an amazing audiovisual aesthetic that it's a shame it's 'wasted' on a mere highscore shooter.
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Post by dsparil on Mar 12, 2018 13:10:54 GMT -5
Unity and Unreal Engine both have asset marketplaces so maybe that's the reason? I couldn't find what engine is being used.
I like the idea of Ion Maiden a whole lot more than most retro games. Not sure if I'll ever play it, but it's great to see a new commercial game built on actual period technology with some enhancements.
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Post by akumajobelmont on Mar 12, 2018 19:06:13 GMT -5
See, those screens have exactly the issues that make me want to smack the game's art director right upside the head. In the third screenshot, you've got modern reflective shaders on pixelated textures, a high-poly sword model with a low resolution texture attached (but still higher res than every other texture in the room) and modern shaders applied, and monsters from a PS1 game with textures have such large pixels you could fit an NES inside them (not to mention their comically low poly weapons compared to the one the hero is using). In fact, one thing I've noticed in every screenshot and gameplay demo is that the poly count and textures on the enemies are so low relative to everything else that they look like they belong in a different game entirely. The last screenshot has that glossy floor that looks relatively modern far away, but up close (especially under the weapon) it's a pixelated mess, and of course has modern reflective shaders attached. And the pixelated floor under the weapon just highlights the fact that the weapon's texture is considerably better and less pixelated than everything else around it. Then the statues are in a completely different art style and of much lower quality than the entire rest of the room. And of course the ridiculous UI that looks like it came from a mobile game, complete with art that is higher res than everything else around it. The environment, the weapons, the enemies, and the UI all have wildly different levels of pixelation and model quality, like somebody took assets from several different games and crammed them together. See, I dunno - maybe it's a taste thing? Because I understand your issues with it, but don't take issue with it myself, and it feels cohesive in-game. If it were that bad, then the game would have no atmosphere across the board in-game, but it doesn't come across that way. For me, it feels like a good mix of old and new, with a foot in both camps. Either way, the game is still a joy to play. To each their own, eh?  And the game runs in Unreal Engine 4 - I'm almost certain that it uses custom assets rather than store-bought ones, but I've got no way of knowing that. Slightly beside the point, but I'd love to see Devil Daggers expanded into a full retro-FPS. That game has such an amazing audiovisual aesthetic that it's a shame it's 'wasted' on a mere highscore shooter. There's a Kickstarter trailer for a new game called Hellscreen (EDIT: Remembered to actually put the video link in) that boasts a similarly striking art-style. It looks promising. Promising enough that I backed the Kickstarter, at any rate. The devs have said that Hellscreen isn't a high-score shooter, and this one features actual level designs rather than just arenas. It probably would have been a good idea to show of some of the more intricate parts of the game in the trailer, because it's not got the backing yet that I think will get it over the line. I hope it does make it though. I really like the use of the limited colours, and if they can make that work without sacrificing readability, then it could be an interesting game, for sure. |
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Post by silentstorm on Mar 12, 2018 19:39:34 GMT -5
While i still have to purchase Amid Evil and do have to admit that the videos make it look like there's too many effects, i do still wish to buy and support the devs and think the game looks fun.
Ion Maiden is just a preview campaign but everything about it felt right, with good gameplay, good level design and all that you want from a Build FPS, it was recently updated this morning with what looks like better optimization, new armor shards(good because the old ones were kinda hard to notice) and a buffed SMG, but still have to try playing it after the update, i do have to say one thing though, Bowling Bombs are amazing and so much fun.
DUSK is pretty fun too, though i think it focuses too much on the horror aspect at times with some really dark areas or locations at times where your flashlight either doesn't work, doesn't provide enough light or is outright broken, something i notice happens more in episode 2 which i don't like so much, i don't know, when the game is bright and you can see everything in front of you, it tends to be a lot more fun, more action packed, less confusing or harder to get lost, and still manages to keep the horror in the game and the feeling that things are messed up, like Escher Labs, not a very dark level, still manages to give a horror vibe while being memorable, hell, just something simple like the Smiling Cult Leader's picture you pass through at the start of the level turning into one where the Leader's eyes are red was effective enough.
I really hope that episode 3 isn't so gosh darn dark, but if you ignore the darkness, DUSK is a pretty good game already with two good episodes, endless survival modes, and ways of beating the game, like a Pacifist kind of achievement as you can just ignore every enemy...including the bosses and go straight to the exit or activate/flick switches while dodging their attacks, nothing much, just think that's a pretty cool detail.
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Post by akumajobelmont on Mar 13, 2018 4:40:28 GMT -5
silentstorm Yeah, I started another game in Ion Maiden after the update - the new shards are MUCH better. So much easier to spot! It does run faster too, although, it doesn't feel as silky smooth as my FPS readings say it's running at. Maybe it's because my monitor is GSYNC? Either way, yeah, it's much better. Was pretty sad to see my saved games deleted with the update though - but it's no bother, because I was going to start over again (again, again) again  I bought a new one today. I think I saw mention of it a while back, but I can't be sure. Still, it's called Overload - an unoffical follow up to Descent by the original creators, apparently.    I've played the first two levels, and it's damned good so far. The controls are spot-on, and the actual shooting is super-satisfying. I'll be digging into this one a lot more.
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Post by JoeQ on Mar 13, 2018 5:01:39 GMT -5
Wasn't there already a few other Descent followups too? Sublevel Zero and I think one that was actually titled Descent.
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Post by akumajobelmont on Mar 13, 2018 5:09:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I think so - that's why I'm unsure if this one passed me by or not. Weren't the other ones rogue-likes? Or one of them was? I dunno, haha!
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Post by retr0gamer on Mar 13, 2018 8:22:43 GMT -5
I just want a return to some actual gods honest level design in FPS games. A lot of these retro throw backs are just arena shooters like Serious Sam but the only one that has worked was Doom, since it felt more like a cross between a FPS and a character action game. Even at that these supposed retro arena shooters don't even feel retro as there were no arena shooters back then.
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Post by silentstorm on Mar 13, 2018 9:12:54 GMT -5
I just want a return to some actual gods honest level design in FPS games. A lot of these retro throw backs are just arena shooters like Serious Sam but the only one that has worked was Doom, since it felt more like a cross between a FPS and a character action game. Even at that these supposed retro arena shooters don't even feel retro as there were no arena shooters back then. Don't know about AMID EVIL but Ion Maiden and DUSK have honest level design and are not arena shooters, like i said above, you can end any level in DUSK without even killing one single enemy which gives you the ranking of pacifist(rankings are only given to some more spectacular ways of ending a level, like killing every enemy and finding every secret will give you the ranking of "completionist" at the end of a level) at the end of each level, even the bosses can be skipped if you manage to dodge their attacks and open the exit without dying. Ion Maiden and DUSK just have big levels with secrets and enemies in some areas, but you aren't locked in one area and can run away to get more health, ammo or just plain run away, these are not arena shooters, you are not trapped through locked doors or invisible walls and forced to kill a variety of enemies before being allowed to proceed, hell, like i said, DUSK allows you to not even beat the bosses(which is great for speedrunners and challenge gamers i guess) so it certainly isn't Serious Sam. |
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Post by backgroundnoise on Mar 13, 2018 14:18:43 GMT -5
Wasn't there already a few other Descent followups too? Sublevel Zero and I think one that was actually titled Descent. The other one you're thinking of is Descent Underground. akumajobelmont: Sublevel Zero was the roguelike/action game hybrid. Aside from those, there was one released in 2013 by the name of Retrovirus: |
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