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Post by wyrdwad on May 21, 2009 21:30:00 GMT -5
Revolver: Again, I think you just haven't seen the right shows. (: Clannad, Planetes, PopoloCrois, His and Her Circumstances, Kodocha, ef ~a tale of memories~, anything and everything Makoto Shinkai touches... those are all anime that very accurately, and very deeply, depict love. And three of those largely take place in schools - heck, Kodocha takes place in elementary school for its first 51 episodes! Love can exist anywhere, at any age... and I think the idea of a true romance blossoming during one's youth, while very rare in real life, is something beautiful and worth watching. After all, fiction doesn't have to exactly mirror reality, you know? It can stretch the bounds of reality a little bit, if it means tugging at your heart strings in the process. (:
Vendeval: That, unfortunately, is something I can't argue with. Clannad is based off of a gal game (though a non-hentai one, for a change!), so its art style is very typical of romance anime. If that's not to your liking, then I don't think you could really sit through 48 episodes of it too easily. (:
-Tom
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Post by conn on May 21, 2009 22:01:47 GMT -5
My problem with high schools shows is that they inevitably focus too much on school, rather than character drama. As such, it gets tiring fast; Science class is hardly an exciting thing to watch.
What I like about Persona 3 and 4 is that, although they're all students in a high school, schooling is very rarely brought up. You get the occasional question in class and stuff like exam week, but by and large it's just an area to meet new characters, and to provide a break to dungeon slogs.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 21, 2009 22:11:40 GMT -5
I dunno, maybe it's because I taught at junior high in Japan for two years, but I never got that impression at all. Schooling and classwork and club activities and such come up in anime EXACTLY AS MUCH as they do in real life. A lot of Japanese consider their high school years to be the best of their lives. As much as I hate the school system in Japan for its ability (or lack thereof) to impart knowledge, it DOES promote socialization very, very, VERY well. Honestly, I think that's mostly what school is about in Japan: learning how to live your life as a member of society.
That's why so many shows focus on school life - because for most people, it was the best time they ever had.
I also find classroom scenes to be quite nice to watch, myself, largely for their subtle details. Every anime that deals with a school setting - and goes so far as to actually depict classroom study and such - will invariably depict it with a unique style or meticulous detailing that helps provide a lot of nuance if you know what to look for. And I, for one, love it. (:
As I said, though, Clannad doesn't do this. Clannad is about its characters. Whenever a classroom scene is depicted, it is DIRECTLY RELEVANT to the storyline or to a character's development. Without exception.
-Tom
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Post by Scylla on May 21, 2009 22:19:59 GMT -5
That's why so many shows focus on school life - because for most people, it was the best time they ever had. That's pretty sad, to be honest.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 21, 2009 22:29:52 GMT -5
You're thinking in American terms. High school here and in Japan are two very different beasts. Think of high school in Japan more like college here... it's a place that's more about camaraderie and togetherness than it is about learning... more about social cliques, clubs, activities, etc. than studies. It's essentially college with a little more supervision, and a little less actual education. (: And I think a lot of us Americans would consider our college years to be some of the best of our lives (I know I do!).
And to retroactively respond to another comment Revolverocelot made: even if you didn't go to high school, that doesn't mean you can't watch and enjoy a story about others who did. Especially when they're of another culture... that should theoretically make it MORE interesting, since you get to see the whole thing through foreign eyes, and expand your view of the world in the process.
-Tom
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Post by boogiecat on May 21, 2009 23:23:23 GMT -5
My problem with high schools shows is that they inevitably focus too much on school, rather than character drama. As such, it gets tiring fast; Science class is hardly an exciting thing to watch. What I like about Persona 3 and 4 is that, although they're all students in a high school, schooling is very rarely brought up. You get the occasional question in class and stuff like exam week, but by and large it's just an area to meet new characters, and to provide a break to dungeon slogs. Yeah that's the major problem with those animes..
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Post by conn on May 21, 2009 23:45:00 GMT -5
I dunno, maybe it's because I taught at junior high in Japan for two years, but I never got that impression at all. Schooling and classwork and club activities and such come up in anime EXACTLY AS MUCH as they do in real life. I'm not doubting its accuracy, I'm saying it's not entertaining. I have this issue with American series' too, for the record.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on May 21, 2009 23:53:52 GMT -5
Revolver: Again, I think you just haven't seen the right shows. (: Well, I find that slightly presumptuous considering A) I created this thread and all but three reviews in it, so I think it's safe to say I have a pretty good grasp on what good anime is. And B) I reviewed Planetes already way back in this very thread and gave it my highest honor of an S score. Planetes, however, doesn't even mention high school. The characters are all adults and go through some pretty heavy development. But this is the exception, not the rule, and it's also typical work of a great, phenomenal director like Goro Taniguchi, who I honestly think is the single greatest anime director of all time. You want a REALLY great teenage drama? Watch Infinite Ryvius. UGH! God! Why do people worship this untalented sap!? He's the WORST director I've ever experienced! I've seen Voices, Promised in Our Early Days and 5 Centimeters and I still don't see a hint of this marvelous genius everyone goes on about when they talk about his work. It's the biggest Emperor's New Clothes effect I've ever seen in anime. Everyone thinks they're experiencing something deep when they watch his movies, but it's really just empty, pretentious, wishy-washy bullshit with stunted dialog and characters who are always a second away from tears. Seriously, fuck his timid little schoolgirl heroines, fuck his whiny, puppy-loving heroes, fuck his beautifully detailed yet decidedly H-Game quality artwork, and FUCK him and everyone who looks like him. That is all.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 22, 2009 0:12:04 GMT -5
Ah, that's right, you don't like Makoto Shinkai's stuff. Me, I consider him to be one of the greatest writers, directors, and animators who ever lived. His stuff is genuine. It's pure emotion, in animated form. And it's among the most visually stunning work I've ever seen, where every frame of every anime contains an almost ludicrous, nearly overwhelming amount of detail. I call it "hyper-realism" - so detailed as to surpass the beauty of reality, in order to make reality appear more beautiful. I firmly believe that anyone who dislikes his stuff simply "doesn't get it". Call it pretentious if you will - that's fine, as a lot of art is considered pretentious to some, yet is stunningly beautiful to others. It's all about... ... wait for it ... ...the TARGET AUDIENCE. Just remember, not liking something doesn't make it bad. 5 Centimeters Per Second is a vision that was perfectly realized... it's EXACTLY what Makoto Shinkai wanted it to be, down to the last detail. I'm sure even you can agree with that. It wasn't a movie that turned out much differently than it was envisioned... no, frame for frame, it's every bit the movie Makoto Shinkai saw in his head. He did not fail his creation - he created it as he intended it, and its beauty is purely in the eye of the beholder. And that's EXACTLY how I like it. (: This doesn't mean his stuff is great, nor does it make it terrible. But to me, it's absolutely breathtaking - just as to you, it's awful. I just personally don't think it's fair to criticise something for telling a story in a manner you dislike. Makoto Shinkai has a target audience, just like anyone else. And that target audience obviously includes me, and does NOT include YOU, based on our respective reactions to his work. And really, if anyone can and should determine whether or not something is good or bad, it should be its target audience that makes that call. After all, if it were up to me, I'd say every sports game and FPS is an awful piece of crap. But obviously, that's not true... I'm just not in the target audience for either genre. (: So just as I leave sports and FPS game reviews up to their fans, I definitely think you just need to stop watching Makoto Shinkai movies. They're not going to change, and you're not going to like him any better than you do now. All you're going to do is continue torturing yourself, and wondering how anyone can appreciate his work. Leave Makoto Shinkai to my ilk. We'll be his judge and jury. * * * Also, regarding you "not seeing the right shows"... out of all those shows I listed, you've seen and agree on one, and seen and disagree on one. That leaves, what, five that you HAVEN'T seen? Seems like my statement stands. (: Though the more I hear about your tastes, the more I think shows like Clannad and ef would NOT be to your liking in the slightest. Kodocha is one I would recommend checking out sometime, though. To date, I have not met a single person who's seen the show and disliked it. Kodocha somehow has a really universal appeal, and seems to cross all borders - no matter where you're from, no matter what you like or dislike, there's a really high probability that you'll enjoy watching Kodocha. PopoloCrois, too, comes highly recommended IF you enjoy children's fairytales. Like, Brothers Grimm tales. Because PopoloCrois is very much a story along those lines. There are dragons, and witches, and fairies, and mad scientists... and while everything is externally very happy and bright, there's a lot of darkness, death, depression, and heartache buried within. And like all good fairy tales, PopoloCrois is all about overcoming these darker sides of the human condition, and remaining hopeful and optimistic no matter what sorts of horrible things life throws at you. -Tom
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Post by Scylla on May 22, 2009 0:15:42 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if it's college or high school - finding either to be the best year's in one's life is pretty sad in my eyes and gives me the impression that somebody's priorities are off and they haven't fully matured yet. I mean, seriously, marriage, children, a fulfilling career, financial stability, etc - none of these things can add up to much better years than a few years of partying and hanging out with friends? It's all very odd to me. I don't understand the romanticism behind high school and college. I found my high school years pretty miserable, and I didn't even bother going to prom or any of those "magical moments I'm supposed to remember forever". And college is only about education to me. I go to all my classes and then get the heck out of there as soon as I can. I even go to great lengths to condense my schedule as much as possible to make it so I only have to go in a couple days a week.
This is getting way off-topic. o_O I'll just wrap it up by saying I find teenagers and their lives pretty irritating as a whole, so I avoid anime that stars kids in general. Well, unless it's clearly targeted at an adult audience. It gets pretty annoying in games too, especially in Japanese RPGs, but the interactive nature of games makes it easier to ignore cliche characters.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 22, 2009 0:22:42 GMT -5
See, I dunno, it just sounds to me like you missed out on the true college experience. I met friends in college who are still friends today, and will almost certainly be my close friends until the day I die. Lifelong bonds are made in college... just as in Japan, they're made in high school. Most Japanese meet their wives or husbands in high school, and many Americans meet their wives or husbands in college (the college I graduated from has a whopping 80% student-to-student marriage rate!).
I guess it's all a matter of personal experience. For me, a show that takes place in the U.S. about college life immediately gets a few points in its favor, solely for showcasing a period of time in my own life of which I have very fond nostalgic memories.
-Tom
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Post by Justinzero on May 22, 2009 0:34:48 GMT -5
No matter how great American college life is, nothing will ever excuse how bad Saved By The Bell: The College Years, turned out to be. Terrible, terrible, terrible show.... Going to fly a bit off topic here and ask if anyone has heard, or seen anything on Engage Planet Kiss Dum? I know the "general" population here doesn't like Macross-like anything, but some of you have your hand dipped in deeper into the world of anime than others. I know the series has been picked up by Bandai for release in NA (Sure saw that coming), but I haven't been able to track down any eps, or any good clips from the show. I just want to know if its any good. Here is the opening for reference. Its right up my alley in pure mecha nerdery ;D www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2mP5Ebk2Y
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Post by Scylla on May 22, 2009 0:42:34 GMT -5
My college doesn't even have dorms, so I wouldn't be able to have that "traditional" college experience even if I wanted to. But usually that seems like in America that means excessive drinking, promiscuous sex, and doing crazy, stupid shit, all of which I'm happy to skip out on. I'd rather just go home to my family and fiance, have our friends come over, and watch movies and play games.
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Post by Justinzero on May 22, 2009 0:51:43 GMT -5
*sniff* That's totally my life, and I love it. Glad to know I'm not the only one who lives a quaint and calm life.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 22, 2009 0:55:09 GMT -5
That's the college life for average members of fraternities and sororities, but not for everyone. Me, I didn't (and still don't) drink at all. I would've gladly done the promiscuous sex thing were I to have an opportunity, but as a nerd, no such opportunity ever arose. And while we did do a lot of crazy crap, it wasn't what you'd expect... I lived in an off-campus house with a bunch of English majors. We were the "freak house". We hosted weekly literary society meetings, a weekly anime club, a weekly D&D game, and monthly "house events" that were as diverse as reiki night, a pimps & hos party, a showing of movies synched up with Pink Floyd music, a massive Italian dinner, etc. College life differs from person to person. But for most everyone I know from college, those four years were VERY fun and memorable. And I think every one of us who lived in Zwingli would agree that our college years are some of the best we ever had. Bear in mind, however, that most of us are still unmarried. We're in that 20%, I guess. (: Anyway, yeah... sorry, this has gotten REALLY off-topic. To bring it back around... Clannad is a high school story to begin with, but it's really about Tomoya and Nagisa. They met in high school, they became friends through a mutual commitment involving high school activities, and they confessed their love during a particularly dramatic event that took place at a particularly dramatic SCHOOL event. (: So yeah, 2/3 of the show takes place in or around a Japanese high school... but that's because the events that occurred there are VERY IMPORTANT. Much moreso than the "daily grind" that came afterward. In life, you'll remember the happy times - how you met your loved one, how you came to fall in love with her, etc. - a lot better than you'll remember waking up in the morning, going to work, going home, then falling asleep, day in and day out. That's the average adult life of a Japanese male, and compared to high school, it's pretty understandable why it's not often focused upon. Me, I've been out of college for 8 years now... and while the first 2 years after college were spent teaching English in Japan, my life SINCE then has been really, really boring. Working for a living sucks. (: -Tom
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