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Post by Justinzero on May 22, 2009 1:12:36 GMT -5
Says the guy who went to Hawaii last year and had a blast ;D
I'm not really into anime with characters staged in high school settings, but there are the few exceptions, such as Please Save My Earth.
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Post by Scylla on May 22, 2009 1:13:26 GMT -5
That's why the Japanese businessman life is so tragic. It's not that high school was such an amazing experience; they just don't know how to get any value out of their adult lives and look back on past times with nostalgia and rose-colored glasses. There's nothing sadder than living in the past.
My life has only been getting better and better, and I don't see the trend changing as long as my outlook stays the same. As I get older, I become more independent, more mature, wiser, and more experienced. Just about everything in life comes easier, which makes for a more relaxing life that lets me make more time for myself. I don't even look that fondly back on how I met and fell in love with my fiance 8 years ago because our lives are so much better now. I could say I'm fortunate, but really I think it's all our doing.
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Post by Justinzero on May 22, 2009 1:18:47 GMT -5
I deeply cherish my past, but I appreciate the present times as well. A convenience store I have been frequenting since my conscious awakening has just recently closed down, which really made me sad. Still, I really enjoy being able to just go and pick up whatever game I have my eyes on, instead of bugging my parents for 6 months, and promising good grades that never came.
I also like older anime, and video games, even though they are not as technologically "pristine" as the current stuff being released.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 22, 2009 1:32:52 GMT -5
Well, I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy the present - but every now and again, living in the past for a little while can be a really fun diversion. (: I DO enjoy my work to some extent, and I have a lot of friends and coworkers that I hang out with all the time... but really, the ratio of good times to meh times is much lower than it was back during my college days, or even my Japan days. I kill a lot of my time nowadays watching TV or posting on message boards like this one, solely because I get exhausted and just don't really feel like doing anything else. Lazing about is like a hobby for me these days. -Tom
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Post by Justinzero on May 22, 2009 1:35:34 GMT -5
What about the YsO localization project you're working on with... what's his name? The Italian dude... terrible, I can't believe I forgot his name. Anyways, doesn't that keep you pretty busy too? I guess its counter-productive to your point, as it keeps you inside, and its pretty much something you can only do alone.
I get bored with life sometimes, but that's the best time to just go for a walk. I have many hobbies, and I even get bored of those sometimes. There isn't anything wrong with just vegging and letting your brain melt.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 22, 2009 1:39:35 GMT -5
That's right, since you're not on ALoY anymore, I guess you didn't see the topic... I'm sort of kind of on hiatus with the Ys Origin project. I intend to work on it again, but I've just been going through a really weird patch in my life right now, and I haven't had the desire to actually sit down and translate for a couple months now.
In short, Doppiapunta is a very patient man to put up with me. (:
-Tom
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Post by Justinzero on May 22, 2009 1:50:39 GMT -5
Taking this to PM, as we still have a tendency to go way off course, just like old times ;D
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on May 22, 2009 12:05:13 GMT -5
Ah, that's right, you don't like Makoto Shinkai's stuff. Me, I consider him to be one of the greatest writers, directors, and animators who ever lived. His stuff is genuine. It's pure emotion, in animated form. And it's among the most visually stunning work I've ever seen, where every frame of every anime contains an almost ludicrous, nearly overwhelming amount of detail. I call it "hyper-realism" - so detailed as to surpass the beauty of reality, in order to make reality appear more beautiful. I firmly believe that anyone who dislikes his stuff simply "doesn't get it". Call it pretentious if you will - that's fine, as a lot of art is considered pretentious to some, yet is stunningly beautiful to others. It's all about... ... wait for it ... ...the TARGET AUDIENCE. Just remember, not liking something doesn't make it bad. 5 Centimeters Per Second is a vision that was perfectly realized... it's EXACTLY what Makoto Shinkai wanted it to be, down to the last detail. I'm sure even you can agree with that. It wasn't a movie that turned out much differently than it was envisioned... no, frame for frame, it's every bit the movie Makoto Shinkai saw in his head. He did not fail his creation - he created it as he intended it, and its beauty is purely in the eye of the beholder. And that's EXACTLY how I like it. (: This doesn't mean his stuff is great, nor does it make it terrible. But to me, it's absolutely breathtaking - just as to you, it's awful. I just personally don't think it's fair to criticise something for telling a story in a manner you dislike. Makoto Shinkai has a target audience, just like anyone else. And that target audience obviously includes me, and does NOT include YOU, based on our respective reactions to his work. And really, if anyone can and should determine whether or not something is good or bad, it should be its target audience that makes that call. After all, if it were up to me, I'd say every sports game and FPS is an awful piece of crap. But obviously, that's not true... I'm just not in the target audience for either genre. (: So just as I leave sports and FPS game reviews up to their fans, I definitely think you just need to stop watching Makoto Shinkai movies. They're not going to change, and you're not going to like him any better than you do now. All you're going to do is continue torturing yourself, and wondering how anyone can appreciate his work. Leave Makoto Shinkai to my ilk. We'll be his judge and jury. * * * Also, regarding you "not seeing the right shows"... out of all those shows I listed, you've seen and agree on one, and seen and disagree on one. That leaves, what, five that you HAVEN'T seen? Seems like my statement stands. (: Though the more I hear about your tastes, the more I think shows like Clannad and ef would NOT be to your liking in the slightest. Kodocha is one I would recommend checking out sometime, though. To date, I have not met a single person who's seen the show and disliked it. Kodocha somehow has a really universal appeal, and seems to cross all borders - no matter where you're from, no matter what you like or dislike, there's a really high probability that you'll enjoy watching Kodocha. PopoloCrois, too, comes highly recommended IF you enjoy children's fairytales. Like, Brothers Grimm tales. Because PopoloCrois is very much a story along those lines. There are dragons, and witches, and fairies, and mad scientists... and while everything is externally very happy and bright, there's a lot of darkness, death, depression, and heartache buried within. And like all good fairy tales, PopoloCrois is all about overcoming these darker sides of the human condition, and remaining hopeful and optimistic no matter what sorts of horrible things life throws at you. -Tom ^^^^ Sorry, I'm not reading this post unless someone makes a highly abridged version with less cock-sucking, self importance and smileys.
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Post by Smithee on May 22, 2009 15:09:59 GMT -5
... That isn't very nice.
// Haruhi just got a second season finally! Well, it has been subbed, I mean. Time to watch it!
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on May 22, 2009 17:12:04 GMT -5
... That isn't very nice. I don't think it's nice that A) I'm being told I shouldn't give logical, well-schooled criticism on something because I'm not a fan. B) It's being implied that I don't understand something simply because I don't like it. Besides, I wasn't being particularly nasty. Just honest. You can't deny that his post was extremely long-winded and minced a lot of words to ultimately say he liked it and he was a fan of Shinkai's. Also, the stance that only fans of something should offer criticism on it is a level of self-importance I find painfully intolerable. Fans are really the LAST people who should critique something unless they're able to demonstrate a level of objectivity that allows them to step outside their state of fanaticism and acknowledge the inherent flaws in the work and not make it seem like a viewer is at fault for not being able to get over those flaws, otherwise their criticism is going to be pretty useless to the casual passerby. The smileys thing is just a personal beef. I don't have a problem with wyrwad or his tastes, but him trying to blame my divergence in taste from his as some kind of lack of understanding or experience as opposed to a mere difference in taste is extremely grating and is definitely not going to win me over into watching anything he recommends, and his ass-backwards theories about what constitutes proper criticism need to be kept to himself. Other than that, there's no ill favor here.
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Post by Smithee on May 22, 2009 17:48:30 GMT -5
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah yeah ja.
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Post by justjustin on May 22, 2009 18:01:28 GMT -5
I watched Planetes having no idea what it was going to be. I like to think I have a keen eye for brainwashed notions of love and relationships in entertainment, and Planetes didn't have one shred of it (I'd call it a miracle). The last few episodes had me disagreeing with practically every decision a character made and I really appreciated that. It was unpredictable, complex, unique and smart. Each character got what they truly wanted in the end and nothing shoved "this is true happiness" down your throat; it was their happiness alone. Phenomenal show.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 22, 2009 21:27:47 GMT -5
Revolver: If you actually read that post of mine, you'll see that I was not at all trying to convince you to watch something you don't like. In fact, I ended by suggesting you NOT watch anything else Makoto Shinkai makes, and also retracted my recommendations for Clannad and ef ~a tale of memories~, as I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like them based on this conversation. But then I did conditionally recommend Kodocha and PopoloCrois, as I think you DO have a chance of liking THEM.
"tl;dr" is how people miss important things. I'm long-winded. Deal with it, or don't comment on what I have to say, please. (:
Also, my theories on criticism should NOT be kept to myself. This is a message board, created for discussion. And this is a review topic. Thus, discussion of reviews is entirely appropriate!
And my theories are far from "ass-backwards" - I believe I've argued them quite well numerous times, in fact. But in case you missed any of those occurrences, I'll give you the abridged version.
Anime, like anything else, is marketed toward specific people. Romance anime are obviously meant to appeal to fans of romance anime. Mech anime are obviously meant to appeal to fans of mech anime. Those are the people who buy these shows on DVD - the target audience. They're the ones who need to know if the show is worth spending money and/or time on, or if it's not a very good representation of its genre.
I hate mecha. Thus, if I were to review a mech anime, I would almost certainly give it a low score. And that would mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO ANYONE. Because people who hate mech would largely not even be considering watching an anime about giant mech. I know I wouldn't.
That being said, someone like me should never review a mech anime. Only people who ENJOY mech anime should review them, thus informing other fans of mech anime whether or not that particular show is worth watching. Someone who hates the genre can't really help those fans make up their minds.
In much the same way, it's quite obvious from what you've told me that you hate high school shows, you feel anime typically cannot represent love in any sort of meaningful way, and you find that typical "Japanese girl behavior" (overt demureness, crying over every little thing, etc.) annoying. Plus, you hate Makoto Shinkai's character art. Why, then, would you even TRY watching a Makoto Shinkai movie?! You know going into it you won't like it. It represents everything you hate about anime! And what good will your review of a Makoto Shinkai movie do anyone? People who think like you will mostly be avoiding his works anyway. It's people who appreciate that style of movie who will be spending money on the DVDs, or taking the time to download and watch. They're the ones who need to know if his works are worth watching, or if they're disappointing.
If you don't like the idea of fans reviewing something... well, then how about calling it "reviewing an anime on its own terms", or "reviewing something for what it is". You can't say something is terrible because it's a genre you hate; you have to review it WITHIN that genre. You have to determine if it's a successful entry in that genre, and if fans of that genre will enjoy it. That's the only review that will actually benefit anyone.
I know this post is also long-winded, but I would appreciate it if you read it through, please. Just humor me this once!
-Tom
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Post by Smithee on May 22, 2009 22:02:02 GMT -5
Well said. I know it makes sense to me at least!
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on May 23, 2009 0:05:57 GMT -5
Revolver: If you actually read that post of mine, you'll see that I was not at all trying to convince you to watch something you don't like. In fact, I ended by suggesting you NOT watch anything else Makoto Shinkai makes, and also retracted my recommendations for Clannad and ef ~a tale of memories~, as I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like them based on this conversation. But then I did conditionally recommend Kodocha and PopoloCrois, as I think you DO have a chance of liking THEM. "tl;dr" is how people miss important things. I'm long-winded. Deal with it, or don't comment on what I have to say, please. (: Also, my theories on criticism should NOT be kept to myself. This is a message board, created for discussion. And this is a review topic. Thus, discussion of reviews is entirely appropriate! And my theories are far from "ass-backwards" - I believe I've argued them quite well numerous times, in fact. But in case you missed any of those occurrences, I'll give you the abridged version. Anime, like anything else, is marketed toward specific people. Romance anime are obviously meant to appeal to fans of romance anime. Mech anime are obviously meant to appeal to fans of mech anime. Those are the people who buy these shows on DVD - the target audience. They're the ones who need to know if the show is worth spending money and/or time on, or if it's not a very good representation of its genre. I hate mecha. Thus, if I were to review a mech anime, I would almost certainly give it a low score. And that would mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO ANYONE. Because people who hate mech would largely not even be considering watching an anime about giant mech. I know I wouldn't. That being said, someone like me should never review a mech anime. Only people who ENJOY mech anime should review them, thus informing other fans of mech anime whether or not that particular show is worth watching. Someone who hates the genre can't really help those fans make up their minds. In much the same way, it's quite obvious from what you've told me that you hate high school shows, you feel anime typically cannot represent love in any sort of meaningful way, and you find that typical "Japanese girl behavior" (overt demureness, crying over every little thing, etc.) annoying. Plus, you hate Makoto Shinkai's character art. Why, then, would you even TRY watching a Makoto Shinkai movie?! You know going into it you won't like it. It represents everything you hate about anime! And what good will your review of a Makoto Shinkai movie do anyone? People who think like you will mostly be avoiding his works anyway. It's people who appreciate that style of movie who will be spending money on the DVDs, or taking the time to download and watch. They're the ones who need to know if his works are worth watching, or if they're disappointing. If you don't like the idea of fans reviewing something... well, then how about calling it "reviewing an anime on its own terms", or "reviewing something for what it is". You can't say something is terrible because it's a genre you hate; you have to review it WITHIN that genre. You have to determine if it's a successful entry in that genre, and if fans of that genre will enjoy it. That's the only review that will actually benefit anyone. I know this post is also long-winded, but I would appreciate it if you read it through, please. Just humor me this once!-Tom I like giving works the benefit of the doubt. I broaden my horizons and try to experience just about everything. There are always exceptions. While I tend to hate high school romance, there's a few shows I've given a shot and somewhat liked (His or Her Circumstances) that I'm glad I didn't miss out on because I pigeonhole myself into black and white categories of genre preference. Likewise, I don't condemn a director because of some bad work. There's a lot of directors I've seen who started out making stuff I didn't like and then came out with stuff I loved.
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