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Post by thethird on Jul 29, 2011 17:04:07 GMT -5
Holy water only worked on demons in the first season, who were the weakest ones that the heroes ran into, and even then it was just a method to stun demons so the heroes could get away or try to do an exorcism. There was even an episode where Dean hits a demon with every "traditional" method and none of it works, including holy water and rock salt. They also did make up alternatives to killing monsters, like The Colt, Ruby's Dagger, a bunch of psychic powers and angel weapons. Would you rather they ignored the traditional beliefs on how to combat monsters? I haven't played SMT or watched Inuyasha so I can't compare their approaches to mythology, unfortunately.
Although I will admit that there are certainly some episodes where the writing for the villains was dumb. Really dumb. Randomly introducing a super-powered witch was pretty egregious in that regard, but the worst has got to be "Hammer of the Gods", which was almost embarrassing in it's handling of non-Judeo-Christian religious deities (hey they're all crazy and eat people), including Kali and Ganesh. Oy vey.
I can't comment on the rest of it since that's more subjective (although I've seen every episode from the first five seasons I can't recall any character saying anything close to "I'll fudging kill you!". If you can point me towards that, though, I'd love to see it because it sounds hilariously dumb and needs to be preserved) but I thought the complaints about the bad guys was a little strange.
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Post by ldorado on Jul 29, 2011 17:33:09 GMT -5
In Inuyasha, he usually had to fight enemies with his Tessaiga and the occasional Blood Blades attack. Also, the mythology in the show is primarily Shinto and Buddhism, there's a lot more usage of barriers, poison gases, and the like. Hell, Miroku, the perverted monk, has a black hole in his hand. In all, enemies were much more diverse, kept coming back in later episodes, and in all, were a greater challenge.
In Shin Megami Tensei, Judeo-Christian mythology is only a part of the overall setting. There are monsters and gods from every mythology imaginable, with specific classifications for each. There are also plenty of magic-infused weapons, over-the-top demon designs, and special attacks. Also, you HAVE to use demons to fight your battles. Oh, and angels count as demons because of that logic that any supernatural being that harms humans is a demon.
The Supernatural episode with that cheesy line is from the Christmas special. Spoiler: for years, a demon Santa has been eating people's dads. I won't say any more because everything about the episode was god-awful stupid.
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Post by thethird on Jul 29, 2011 17:53:13 GMT -5
I'm not going to lie - I thought that Christmas special was pretty funny. Maybe I have a demented sense of humour, but I find a lot of Supernatural to be pretty tongue-in-cheek so I laughed throughout. I mean, he impales the evil Santa-imposter (and his wife!) with a branch from a Christmas tree. I gotta laugh. I remember that line now, but it's not said in sincerity. If I recall correctly, the monster chastises and hits Dean for cursing (which is played for laughs since they eat people, as you pointed out), so the next time it cuts him, he yells "The next time you fudging touch me, I'll fudging kill you!". I don't have a problem with that and I actually found it funny in context, but, different strokes.
It doesn't sound like there's a big difference between the way that SMT and Supernatural handles their villains. Supernatural has loads of monsters from different mythologies: Native American (Wendigo), Christian (demons, Lucifer, angels), Pagan (bunch of random pagan Gods, Samhain), French (Rougarou?), werewolves vampires witches ghosts zombies etc. There were certainly magic-infused weapons, like Samuel Colt's....uh, Colt, and some characters had psychic powers. And though there wasn't much in the way of OTT demon designs....it probably would have stretched the budget a little too far.
Inuyasha sounds like a much different show than Supernatural, since it sounds like everybody has crazy superpowers. Supernatural revolves almost entirely around two mostly human dudes on a never-ending road trip back and forth across America killing monsters. That's what it is at the heart of the show and maybe I would have to watch Inuyasha to know better but it sounds unfair to compare the two.
ra ra supernatural and monsters ra ra riot
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Jul 29, 2011 18:43:15 GMT -5
The fact Supernatural now has an anime adaption. I hate the shit out of that show. I don't know where they got the impression that trying to Japan-ify something is going to make it better. Witchblade, maybe? P.S. No offense to REAL anime fans out there I thought it was funny that they decided to just retell the first two seasons with an animu. I won't post it but I drew a "house: the animated series" sketch for that reason a while back. Also, I was apparently banned from Pixiv for posting that Megaman Legends RIP drawing, because it received too many complaints from people for being "offensive." WTF. Anyway it's deleted now and they're supposed to let me back on. Is that the drawing you've posted on the "Megaman Legeds 3" thread, because if it is, it was kinda tasteless. |
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Post by ldorado on Jul 29, 2011 19:09:58 GMT -5
I'm not going to lie - I thought that Christmas special was pretty funny. Maybe I have a demented sense of humour, but I find a lot of Supernatural to be pretty tongue-in-cheek so I laughed throughout. I mean, he impales the evil Santa-imposter (and his wife!) with a branch from a Christmas tree. I gotta laugh. I remember that line now, but it's not said in sincerity. If I recall correctly, the monster chastises and hits Dean for cursing (which is played for laughs since they eat people, as you pointed out), so the next time it cuts him, he yells "The next time you fudging touch me, I'll fudging kill you!". I don't have a problem with that and I actually found it funny in context, but, different strokes. It doesn't sound like there's a big difference between the way that SMT and Supernatural handles their villains. Supernatural has loads of monsters from different mythologies: Native American (Wendigo), Christian (demons, Lucifer, angels), Pagan (bunch of random pagan Gods, Samhain), French (Rougarou?), werewolves vampires witches ghosts zombies etc. There were certainly magic-infused weapons, like Samuel Colt's....uh, Colt, and some characters had psychic powers. And though there wasn't much in the way of OTT demon designs....it probably would have stretched the budget a little too far. Inuyasha sounds like a much different show than Supernatural, since it sounds like everybody has crazy superpowers. Supernatural revolves almost entirely around two mostly human dudes on a never-ending road trip back and forth across America killing monsters. That's what it is at the heart of the show and maybe I would have to watch Inuyasha to know better but it sounds unfair to compare the two. ra ra supernatural and monsters ra ra riot No, no, SMT has regular dudes as protagonists most of the time. Also, there's stuff from Hinduism, Japanese mythology, Buddhism, Aztec mythology, H.P. Lovecraft, Slavic mythology, Chinese mythology, Voodoo, Hittite, and so on. I really do not like the word "pagan" because it implies that Christianity was, and always has, been dominant over all ethnic beliefs and gives Native Americans, Africans, and Vikings a negative connotation. Overall, I feel Supernatural makes a mockery of religion and gothic fiction (and not in a clever or satirical light) and to paint two undiagnosed psychotics as "divine warriors" or "saviors of the world" doesn't sit well with me. Besides, if the Supreme Ruler of Darkness or whatever did arise, I would assume it would not be in America or even in a single, convenient location. |
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Post by thethird on Jul 29, 2011 19:52:56 GMT -5
I wasn't a fan of how Christianity was portrayed as the "one true faith" or whatever, but it was hardly a flattering portrayal. Hell, no religion was shown in a positive light. I guess that could be off-putting for some, but I really had no problem with it.
Although I do think that you're taking the whole "psychotic heroes" thing a little far. Sam and Dean start out as two relatively well-adjusted individuals, but through seeing their friends and family die gruesome deaths, nevermind a bunch of innocent victims, suffering torture in hell and being unable to escape their lives as monster killers they do get a little unhinged. I wasn't a big fan of how much they angsted-up the show in later seasons, but I can hardly blame the characters. One of them spent forty years in hell. C'mon. I'd be a little crazy too. Even so, they're hardly psychotic, since they're still doing their best to save the world from the real "divine warriors", the angels, and they even try to find peaceful options (I remember the episode where they help a ghost "pass on". cue the ghost whisperer joke) when it's possible. I'm not sure where you got the whole "anti-social" thing from, since they both have, or had, since they all keep on dying, loads of friends. They did get a little anti-social later on (when a situation came up in which it could be shown), but it was mainly because whenever they got close to people they ended up dead or maimed or crippled or possessed or something. Having a hair-trigger temper and being hot-headed comes with the territory of constantly being in life-or-death situations, and even so, at least Sam was pretty level-headed most of the time until they basically made him a junkie. It seems pretty justified to me. Again, if fucked-up in the head heroes rubs you the wrong way I'm fine with that, but I wouldn't say that it was a fault of the show. It's not like they were Rorschach. Or Batman circa All-Star Batman and Robin. Man, Batman was an asshole in that.
ANYWAYS, yeah! That's my yap about Supernatural. I'm not trying to tell you that you can't dislike the show, and I'm not saying that Supernatural is flawless - it's got problems and some episodes (hell, I didn't like some seasons. Season 3 was pretty mediocre, at best) were just plain bad. I just disagreed with some of your points. and yadda yadda.
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Post by ldorado on Jul 29, 2011 21:48:56 GMT -5
This is (hopefully) the last thing I will say before diverging on something else. I get what you mean, but I'd still like to see the protagonists learn. Shinn Asuka's family was killed in front of him and he's flown completely off the handle ever since. But, he learned that helping a genocidal bishounen wipe out all life on Earth with a gamma laser was not the right thing. Domon Kasshu mastered the Meikyou Seisui and learned to master a hyper mode free of prejudice and anger. Van from Gun X Sword learned a valuable lesson about friends and the power of true love.
I just can't see any of that in Supernatural.
Oh, something I'm pissed off about is that I learned Altron Gundam has a beam cannon, yet it was not made an available weapon in Super Robot Wars D. WTF? That game left out so many things! How come the evil Shin Dragon can regenerate, but the good one you get afterwards can't? Why isn't Gundam Epyon overpowered to the max? I swear, I want to hack the game someday and improve as much as possible.
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Post by TheGunheart on Jul 31, 2011 17:54:44 GMT -5
Okay, I know I never saw the original Thundercats to compare, but from what I've read, I think the remake perfectly highlights what I hate about Voltron Force.
For Thundercats, I got the feeling that they genuinely loved the original, and tried to preserve all the "80s cartoon weirdness" while fitting it in to a coherent narrative. So the Sword of Omens gets its full transformation sequence, Mum-Ra says his incantation, and there are in fact going to be weird cyborg bears later. On the other hand, it has all the action take place on the same planet with Thunderan culture being better established as a technophobic kingdom that has grown far too arrogant, with have Lion-O as simply a naive teenager instead of a ten-year-old in an adult body, and Snarf is mercifully a non-talking and surprisingly funny/adorable pet instead of a nanny.
...Not the best examples to give, I guess, but I hope it illustrates my point.
With Voltron Force, the Q&As I read pretty much confirmed that every change was made simply to be "different" from the original. Everything from the bargain bin character designs to the shoehorning in of poorly though out gimmicks and tag-along kids. I'm surprised they didn't just replace the lions with platypodes (which in retrospect might have made VF more fun to watch).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 18:12:59 GMT -5
I thought it was funny that they decided to just retell the first two seasons with an animu. I won't post it but I drew a "house: the animated series" sketch for that reason a while back. Also, I was apparently banned from Pixiv for posting that Megaman Legends RIP drawing, because it received too many complaints from people for being "offensive." WTF. Anyway it's deleted now and they're supposed to let me back on. Is that the drawing you've posted on the "Megaman Legeds 3" thread, because if it is, it was kinda tasteless. Heh, you don't mince words, do you? The image in question was just a Japanese funeral/memorial picture with the Rockman Legends 3 logo. It even placed in the top visited images for the day, so it was probably some Capcom fanboys that bitched about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 18:40:56 GMT -5
Maybe I've been reading too many comics, but I have the sneaking suspicion that jonny2x4 is actually zzz in disguise.
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Jul 31, 2011 19:03:45 GMT -5
No, but I'm his twin brother from Earth-3.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 19:06:44 GMT -5
Maybe I've been reading too many comics, but I have the sneaking suspicion that jonny2x4 is actually zzz in disguise. Oh jeez. What if zzz could take the form of other posters? This just made me think of the "Blood Test" scene in "The Thing." Except that the blood that jumps out has a wrist brace and bad acne. No, but I'm his twin brother from Earth-3. Ultra-ZZZ? Owl-ZZZ? |
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Jul 31, 2011 19:26:52 GMT -5
Ultra-ZZZ. I'm surprised there was never a legal dispute between DC Comics and Tsuburaya over the trademark of "Ultraman".
But I really meant "tasteless" as in a obscene, not necessarily bad quality. Why did that Servbot had a 3DS tied to his crotch?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 20:02:45 GMT -5
Ultra-ZZZ. I'm surprised there was never a legal dispute between DC Comics and Tsuburaya over the trademark of "Ultraman". But I really meant "tasteless" as in a obscene, not necessarily bad quality. Why did that Servbot had a 3DS tied to his crotch? I was pretty amazed too that nothing has come up; I wonder if they even know about Earth 3 Ultraman.... BTW, I wasn't trying to pick a fight; I'd just read the double dragon thread so I was kind of kidding you about being serious. But yeah, the image is in poor taste... ...and it doesn't help that I deleted the explanation when I posted the picture  . It's a parody of this image from the scambaiter website; someone tricked a professional con-man into doing different humiliating tasks under the promise of being let in on a big laptop sales scam...tasks including suspending a laptop from his unmentionables while brandishing torches. If you do a search for "I am serious now" it'll pop up (just don't do it in mixed company!). |
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Post by nintendolegend on Aug 1, 2011 18:51:02 GMT -5
IOr Batman circa All-Star Batman and Robin. Man, Batman was an asshole in that. Y'know, after reading the first few bites of All-Star Batman & Robin -- I actually really, really liked it, even as a long-time Batman fan who heard all the Internet rumors and saw the scans of Batman yelling at Robin in the Batmobile, etc. It was his intent to frighten the kid out of his wits. A little misguided, perhaps, but taught him that he (Batman) still even had a lot to learn, especially about relations-- Or maybe I should just stop there, since my argument is beginning to shoot itself, in the foot. /twocents |
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. It's a parody of this image from the scambaiter website; someone tricked a professional con-man into doing different humiliating tasks under the promise of being let in on a big laptop sales scam...tasks including suspending a laptop from his unmentionables while brandishing torches. If you do a search for "I am serious now" it'll pop up (just don't do it in mixed company!).