Nerds...NEEEERDS! (Comic Discussion Thread)

[Pitchfork]

Hum. I can't track down the quote, but the brilliant Grant Morrison said something about the necessity of always bearing in mind that serial superhero comics are inherently ridiculous. There's really no way around it, unless you're doing a limited series written by a single author. Once you have a property spanning a number of decades, crossing over with any number of other properties, and being written by revolving set of authors, there's no way it's not going to get screwy.

But that's how mainstream superhero comics have always been, and I don't think that should (or can) be changed. The best superhero comic writers, I think, are the ones who are able to perform a kind of balancing act between taking their work seriously and celebrating the absurdity of the world in which these stories exist.

[Deleted]

It's true, superhero comics are like government. The system is fundamentally flawed, but it's not going to be fixed. I was talking about the absurdity of modern comics with a friend the other day, and she commented how this isn't an issue in Japan. Everything has a limited run. Sure, you'll have people still pumping out Evangelion merchandise over 15 years later, but the series itself had a definite beginning, middle and end.

I wouldn't want Batman comics to end, but damn. Shit gets crazy, yo.

[rorshacma]

Apr 26, 2010 21:21:52 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

It's true, superhero comics are like government. The system is fundamentally flawed, but it's not going to be fixed.

Personally, I don't feel this is something that even needs to be "fixed" in superhero comics. Quite frankly its these huge, all-encompassing universes that make no realistic sense that makes me love the genre. I read superhero comics because I want to read something that is just completely fun and ridiculous. Are the Flash's rogues unrealistic? Are they completely unbelievable? Yes, which is exactly why I have fun reading about them.

If I want to read a comic that has the possibility of being meaningful or literary, I'll read something from Vertigo. If I want a superhero themed book that isn't mired by 80 years of continuity and a massive universe, I can read some of the more self-contained, one-author books like Invincible or Irredeemable. But when I read something from the mainstream MU or DCU, I'm going in with the expectation of some wild story that strains my suspension of disbelief, and I don't want that to ever change.

Quite obviously, you don't agree with this at all, and I can certainly see where you're coming from. This is just my personal two cents on the matter.

[Deleted]

There are people who hate the farcical nature of mainstream comics. There are others who can just run with it. That's okay. I'm not saying all comics have to be 100% zomg serious, either. All I ask is that they make sense.

[Smithee of Zur-En-Arrh]

I dunno, nothing makes sense. I try my hardest to avoid goatse and all that shit, and somebody had what I can presume is blue waffle as their profile picture on facebook. They're blocked, and I never need to see that shit again.

So basically, the moral of the story is this: If you avoid something for too long (ie dumb comics) you'll get caught up by it even if you never oxpected it. right? so itl be a badd thing. As in, watch out, Jason, because you'll see some dumb comic that you hate withaut noing. reight?

xkactly.

Sorry, that was stupid. I will get off the internet now, since I'm on sleeping meds and kinda zanny from them. Sorry.

[Deleted]

I kind of enjoy being upset, though. It gives me strength. Sort of like the opposite of photosynthesis.

[Smithee of Zur-En-Arrh]

Is that like absorbing dark people?

[Deleted]

Well I did date a black girl once...Still owe her $350, come to think of it.

[Strider]

Apr 26, 2010 21:21:52 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

It's true, superhero comics are like government. The system is fundamentally flawed, but it's not going to be fixed. I was talking about the absurdity of modern comics with a friend the other day, and she commented how this isn't an issue in Japan. Everything has a limited run. Sure, you'll have people still pumping out Evangelion merchandise over 15 years later, but the series itself had a definite beginning, middle and end.

I wouldn't want Batman comics to end, but damn. Shit gets crazy, yo.

I've been a longtime proponent of the idea that stories with definite endings are better.

One of my more intellectually-inclined friends is often advocating the idea of a "mythology model" for superhero comics instead of the "continuity model" they use now- making a lot of relatively standalone stories about a character or set of characters, which may or may not be related to each other.

Personally, I don't have time to follow ongoing series, but I do enjoy the odd graphic novel here and there. I'm one of the half-dozen people who actually liked The Dark Knight Strikes Again, although I probably shouldn't admit that in public.

- HC

[MRSKELETON]

I like stories with definite endings. That's why I read stuff like Old Man Logan and Batman: Year One. Every story ends with a resolved conflict, even if they go back to the norm afterwards.

Tony Stark isn't the same guy he was 10 years ago, for example.

. both companies have things that address the adventure (Marvel Adventures)
You're also kind of acting like it's the most difficult thing to get 'in the loop' on comics.
You don't need to know every single detail about a character that ever happened to them to start reading about them. I don't know EVERYTHING about Batman, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying him any less.

I'm not really gonna address this anymore, It's a pretty silly thing to hate superhero comic books over.

Is anyone reading blackest night?

[America Young Fusion]

Apr 26, 2010 10:30:34 GMT -5 America Young Fusion said:

Anyway, the only thing I'm interested in following lately is the batshit new Robocop and The Punisher, both Max and Franken Castle. El Zorro's pretty great too out of nostalgia.

Ah hey I also like Garth Ennis' The Boys.

I was only gonna mention I read it sporadically but I just stole a pair of back issues and I'm up to date.

So yeah, I'm mostly a Marvel and Dynamite fan.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2010 19:56:52 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

Can't say that those Rogues panels did much for me. It comes across as a really lame attempt to make a group of washed up never-beens into something edgy. While a character with Captain Cold's proposed background sounds interesting in theory, the fact remains, he's a lowest-rung supervillain. His primary opponent is a guy who can move faster than the speed of light, let alone the rest of the superhero community. He simply doesn't cut it.

They've been that way since the 80's, pretty much. You should check out Geoff Johns' and Scott Kollins' run on The Flash before passing judgment, though...I thought they were pretty lame, but those comics got me interested in the Flash and The Rogues, part of the reason being how relatively harmless looking villains used their powers creatively to be able to fight on equal ground with a guy that can run faster than light and make shit explode by touching it.

I guess another way of looking at it is that most DC villains are pretty cheesedick, including Batman's villains. You have a powerless midget that looks like a penguin, and a guy that is obsessed with riddles; if you look at it that way, it's no worse than a guy that can come out of your mirror and kill you, or a guy that can freeze your nuts and then kick them. It just depends on what the writer does with them to make them entertaining or believable.

In response to Mazinsaga and Blackest Night, I enjoyed the "core" books (Blackest Night and the two Green Lantern books), and it worked well if you kept it to that. The BN Minis were almost all lame, and pretty much told the exact same story, only with different characters - corpse of friend/loved one comes back, acts like dick and says uncharacteristically dickish things, somehow they are defeated or run away. Unfortunately, Blackest Night also led to "crossover-itis" in the other DC books, much to their detriment (each Blackest Night tie-in read similarly to the mini's discussed earlier). At any rate, I liked it more than Final Crisis because it could be enjoyed without tripping balls on Peyote and having an encyclopedic knowledge (and similar love) of Jack Kirby's DC works.

[rorshacma]

Apr 27, 2010 8:51:40 GMT -5 Joseph Joestar said:

In response to Mazinsaga and Blackest Night, I enjoyed the "core" books (Blackest Night and the two Green Lantern books), and it worked well if you kept it to that. The BN Minis were almost all lame, and pretty much told the exact same story, only with different characters - corpse of friend/loved one comes back, acts like dick and says uncharacteristically dickish things, somehow they are defeated or run away. Unfortunately, Blackest Night also led to "crossover-itis" in the other DC books, much to their detriment (each Blackest Night tie-in read similarly to the mini's discussed earlier). At any rate, I liked it more than Final Crisis because it could be enjoyed without tripping balls on Peyote and having an encyclopedic knowledge (and similar love) of Jack Kirby's DC works.

For the most part, I agree with this. They did do something that I thought, with some major expansion, might actually be a great idea for future major events however. Namely, how the tie-ins for some of their major books like Superman and Batman were done as their own mini-series instead of within their main books. If they did this exclusively, that would be great. That way, if someone really wanted to know what the Batman family was up to during a major event, they could just buy the specific tie-in miniseries, where as everyone else who didn't care could just completely ignore it, and not have the narrative in the main book interrupted.

While most of the tie-ins were pretty pointless and lame, I did enjoy the Phantom Stranger one-shot tie-in. Partially because I'm a big fan of the Stranger, and partially because, as I recall, it was actually written by Tomasi, so it was actually relevent to the plot going on in the main books.

[Deleted]

I'm admittedly biased towards Batman and his related characters, so it's a bit easier to accept his opponents. Penguin, for example, is no longer a gimmick character. He's a crime boss who tries to pass himself off as a legitimate businessman. I think the reason this works as opposed to say, Weather Wizard, is because it never involves the supernatural. Batman is a mortal man with no superpowers, as are most of his enemies. It makes for more engaging drama, in my eyes.

As for Blackest Night, I figured they'd use it as an excuse to bring Bruce back from the dead. Thankfully, they didn't go that route. Unfortunately, the alternative is proving to be even worse.

[rorshacma]

Apr 27, 2010 13:28:35 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

Batman is a mortal man with no superpowers, as are most of his enemies. It makes for more engaging drama, in my eyes.

I dunno, I can think of quite a few iconic Batman villains that are powered. Mr. Freeze, Ivy, Croc, Clayface, etc. In some of those cases, I really don't see how they're any more or less realistic than Weather Wizard or Captain Cold.

As for Blackest Night, I figured they'd use it as an excuse to bring Bruce back from the dead. Thankfully, they didn't go that route. Unfortunately, the alternative is proving to be even worse.

Well, we, the readers, sort of knew what was up with Bruce's situation since the end of Final Crisis, so I wasn't really thinking that BN was going to tie into his return at all. I figured they'd use BN as an excuse to bring a bunch of other people back from the dead, which proved to be the case.