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Post by kitten on Jan 16, 2011 18:47:07 GMT -5
Contra 4 is not a completely terrible game by any means, but game's extreme difficulty is mostly due to poor balance than any actual foresight or good level design. When you say things like "not completely terrible" and immediately then then talk about "extreme" difficulty, poor balance and lack of good level design, it generally leads a person with rational thought processes to assume you disliked it. |
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Jan 16, 2011 19:08:56 GMT -5
When I said it's not "completely terrible", I meant that it's not bad, but it's has some flaws. I never said the level designs were bad either, it's just that the difficulty comes from the fact that the peashooter rifle you start off the game with is painfully weak (even compared to the NES games, since at least in those games there weren't as many enemies on-screen and you didn't have to deal with two screens at the same time) and most of the time I've died was because I was unable to accurately calculate the gap between the two screens and enemy bullets are real slow, allowing them to stay hidden in the gap for awhile. The gap is around as high as the player character's height, which is a half-inch worth of visual information that you're missing out. I made a custom screenshot just to prove this point. The white space around Bill is the gap between the two screens.  |
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Post by justjustin on Jan 16, 2011 19:15:57 GMT -5
That Contra 4 is the only entry I haven't replayed multiple times sums up my feelings about the game. It's perfectly serviceable-- great art, good remixed tunes, familiar sites-- but the problem is that it's made only in the spirit of, or as a reminder of previous games. It's less a sequel and more a tribute to better, older games in the series. Unfortunately for Contra 4, those better games are still within reach and I will always pick them over this when I'm in the mood for some Contra carnage.
Hard Corps is a solid sequel that mixed things up with multiple paths, characters and tons of bosses. Shattered Soldier had level design so good that despite its rigid "perfectionist" form, I wanted to play each level a billion times. Contra 4, while it has great production values, just doesn't belong with the best in the series. Those corridor sections weren't fun all those years ago, and they still aren't today.
And that screen gap is awful.
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Post by Feynman on Jan 16, 2011 19:52:28 GMT -5
Contra 4 isn't one of the best games in the series, but it isn't bad either. It's just not as good, and as such it tends to fall into the same trap that a lot of Mega Man games do - you play it once, enjoy it, and then never touch it again, because other titles in the series are more fun to go back to.
My biggest problem with the game is the hardware it runs on. The DS with its two screen gimmick and small resolution is rubbish for Contra, and having that gap between the top and bottom screens is just terrible. The game would be significantly more fun were it a downloadable console title or even a PSP release.
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Post by munchy on Jan 17, 2011 17:48:30 GMT -5
I... didn't really mind the screen gap. It never gave me any trouble that I didn't already see coming (ie bullets). It reminded me of the arcade ones with the extra vertical space.
For some reason, now I really want to see a remake of Contra Force that makes it, y'know, a good game.
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Jan 17, 2011 21:05:17 GMT -5
I guess my feeling about Contra 4 can be compared to the same ones I have with Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes in the sense that they're both western-developed installments of popular Konami franchises. Neither of them are technically bad, but they feel more like imitations of their corresponding franchises instead of trying to do their own thing. In the case of Twin Snakes, it's more or less justified since it was remaking the scenario of one game with the game system of another.
If you think about it, Contra: Hard Corps was more or less a remake of Contra Force. Not in a literal sense mind you, but it had the same concept of having unique playable characters with their unique arsenal. I have no doubt that the designers of Hard Corps were inspired by Contra Force and sought out to make a "real" version of Contra Force.
The problem with Contra Force is that the characters have too many impractical weapons (the range of Burns' hand grenades are too short, Beans is better off with the default Pistol and Smith's Homing Missiles tend to miss their targets due to some odd curving) and the Gradius-style power-up system just doesn't belong in a run-'n-gun game, especially since it's possible to grind each character's power meter by spamming the same areas to obtain more briefcases. I also feel that the character switching feature was only added as an afterthought, since it's impossible to make certain jumps with Iron or Smith and thus, complete the game using only either of them. Contra Force just feels like an unfinished beta and it's telling that the Famicom counterpart, Arc Hound, wasn't even released (probably because you need to use the select button to power-up your character, a button missing in the second controller of early Famicom models).
I personally would like to see a proper Operation C remake done in the same style as Nemesis '90 Kai for the X68000 or the remakes of Twin Bee Da! and the MSX2 Parodius for the PSP. Same game system and stages, but with arcade (or SNES)-style graphics and a 2-Players Mode. They did something similar for the mobile phone version of Super Contra, which was basically the Famicom version of the game, but with the graphical style of the arcade version.
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Post by munchy on Jan 18, 2011 17:35:14 GMT -5
If you think about it, Contra: Hard Corps was more or less a remake of Contra Force. Not in a literal sense mind you, but it had the same concept of having unique playable characters with their unique arsenal. I have no doubt that the designers of Hard Corps were inspired by Contra Force and sought out to make a "real" version of Contra Force. The problem with Contra Force is that the characters have too many impractical weapons (the range of Burns' hand grenades are too short, Beans is better off with the default Pistol and Smith's Homing Missiles tend to miss their targets due to some odd curving) and the Gradius-style power-up system just doesn't belong in a run-'n-gun game, especially since it's possible to grind each character's power meter by spamming the same areas to obtain more briefcases. I also feel that the character switching feature was only added as an afterthought, since it's impossible to make certain jumps with Iron or Smith and thus, complete the game using only either of them. Contra Force just feels like an unfinished beta and it's telling that the Famicom counterpart, Arc Hound, wasn't even released (probably because you need to use the select button to power-up your character, a button missing in the second controller of early Famicom models). I personally would like to see a proper Operation C remake done in the same style as Nemesis '90 Kai for the X68000 or the remakes of Twin Bee Da! and the MSX2 Parodius for the PSP. Same game system and stages, but with arcade (or SNES)-style graphics and a 2-Players Mode. They did something similar for the mobile phone version of Super Contra, which was basically the Famicom version of the game, but with the graphical style of the arcade version. Huh... I never thought about Hard Corps that way. It kinda makes sense. Also, I would be all over that style of Operation C remake. As long as they added more stages. |
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Post by TheGunheart on Jan 18, 2011 20:13:09 GMT -5
This is something that's been bugging, and I feel the need to say it.
Dual, given how you often act when people defend games they like, I have to ask, why do Halo and Contra 4 get special treatment?
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Post by kitten on Jan 18, 2011 21:38:13 GMT -5
I don't quite understand what that question is trying to imply. Why do I defend games some games when I also attack others? Is that what you're asking?
Do I have to explain that? Am I supposed to only do one or the other? Was this some sort of attempt at exposing a perceived hypocrisy?
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Post by TheGunheart on Jan 18, 2011 22:20:15 GMT -5
No, I mean why do you get pissed when people defend games you don't like.
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Post by kitten on Jan 19, 2011 3:02:36 GMT -5
No, I mean why do you get pissed when people defend games you don't like. Here's an in-depth explanation. |
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Post by TheGunheart on Jan 19, 2011 3:47:05 GMT -5
Ah, I see. I'll admit, I also don't quite feel as strongly about Mass Effect 2 has I've let on in recent posts, so I know where you're coming from there.
Well, back on topic, I'll admit this game appeals to me far more than Contra 4 for the simple fact that I, admittedly, don't actually like the classic Contra aesthetic. I fully admit to hunting down and playing the Probotector versions simply because I found the robots cooler. I did like the way Shattered Soldier looked, and loved the demo, but for reasons I can't recall, I never got around to buying it.
So that's what Hard Corps does for me. I got a real taste for Arc System Works' style after playing BlazBlue, but fighting games still aren't quite my thing. Sidescrolling action games, however, are.
Plus, it's a little cathartic to see, in an age where just about every Japanese franchise is being Westernized, a decidedly Western looking game becoming unmistakably Japanese.
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Post by X-pert74 on Jan 19, 2011 4:34:57 GMT -5
I can understand a lot of that. I too have often gotten into heated arguments/debates with people in the past for some of the same reasons. It's not just for the sake of argument, but because I enjoy discussing certain subjects with people, and making clear why I feel the way I do. I can also sometimes be hyperbolic when discussing subjects. I'll often say I hate something when I don't actually hate it; I just am stressing how much I dislike something, in that particular moment. I use "hate" in a pretty lighthearted manner fairly often. There aren't actually that many things that I truly "hate". Plus, it's a little cathartic to see, in an age where just about every Japanese franchise is being Westernized, a decidedly Western looking game becoming unmistakably Japanese. I can see that, but as someone who enjoyed how "Western" the Contra series feels despite being a Japanese-created series, I'm kind of lukewarm to the art change. I don't find it unappealing (I still don't like the Wind Waker's art style to this day, but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with this), but I prefer the look the majority of Contra games have had up to this point. |
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Post by KeeperBvK on Jan 19, 2011 4:59:06 GMT -5
So that's what Hard Corps does for me. I got a real taste for Arc System Works' style after playing BlazBlue, but fighting games still aren't quite my thing. Sidescrolling action games, however, are. With the only difference being that BlazBlue actually has a style to speak of, whereas Hard Corps looks bland, choppy, blocky and overall soulless. |
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