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Post by Weasel on Mar 18, 2012 3:46:06 GMT -5
Well. This thread sure got to sucking.
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Post by Ike on Mar 18, 2012 3:49:29 GMT -5
You people are awfully fucking moody about a game that stars blue aliens that literally have sexiness built into their very being.
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Post by Ryusui on Mar 18, 2012 4:41:19 GMT -5
You people are awfully fucking moody about a game that stars blue aliens that literally have sexiness built into their very being. And Star Wars has a forested moon inhabited by teddy bear-people. Your point? |
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Post by kal on Mar 18, 2012 7:39:43 GMT -5
Ike does have a valid point that a lot of people complain about the practicality/possibility of the ending.
In a universe with faster than light travel, magic space robots, biotic brain powers, cure for complete brain death and everyone speaks English.
I thought the ending was fine. To me it seems like a lot of people had already had certain ideas what would happen at the end, it didn't so now they're angry. I went in expecting a disappointing ending because that's what I had been told would happen, then it was...it really wasn't.
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Post by Ike on Mar 18, 2012 10:00:10 GMT -5
You people are awfully fucking moody about a game that stars blue aliens that literally have sexiness built into their very being. And Star Wars has a forested moon inhabited by teddy bear-people. Your point? Getting into e-fisticuffs discussing the intricacies of the plot of Star Wars is also dumb? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 11:05:28 GMT -5
Don't worry. I'm still pissed about the "Han shot first" thing, too.
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Post by docmarionum1 on Mar 18, 2012 11:54:56 GMT -5
And Star Wars has a forested moon inhabited by teddy bear-people. Your point? I think his point is that the teddy bear people were fucking adorable, so even if the ending sucked, you got your moneys worth. |
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Post by Ryusui on Mar 18, 2012 13:31:59 GMT -5
My point is "one ridiculous aspect does not make a work any less legitimate a topic for discussion or debate." Even with the freaking asari in it, the world and plotline of Mass Effect made internal, consistent, logical sense up until the ending. The Normandy flees Earth for no apparent or justifiable reason, we're told that war between synthetic and organic life is inevitable whether or not we reconciled the geth and quarians, and the "optimal" solution we're handed - magically make everyone in the galaxy into a cyborg - takes a chainsaw to suspension of disbelief both in premise and execution. Remember the crapstorm over midi-chlorians when the prequels first started coming out? That's peanuts compared to this. The idea that Jedi are Force-sensitive because of bacterial symbiotes, however bizarre, at least didn't flagrantly contradict anything from the original trilogy (though it probably killed a small chunk of the Expanded Universe). |
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Post by X-pert74 on Mar 18, 2012 16:56:59 GMT -5
I haven't seen the director's cut of Blade Runner, but I like the monologues in the theatrical version. I don't get why everyone says they're bad. I know Harrison Ford intentionally tried to do a poor job, but I felt they fit the movie, and I appreciated the fact that they were there. As for Mass Effect, I still haven't beaten it, but I played a lot more of the game yesterday, and this morning! I stayed up all night playing as much as possible. The last thing I did was save the Citadel from Cerberus, and watch Kaidan shoot dipshit Udina .  |
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Post by kal on Mar 19, 2012 6:46:40 GMT -5
My point is "one ridiculous aspect does not make a work any less legitimate a topic for discussion or debate." Even with the freaking asari in it, the world and plotline of Mass Effect made internal, consistent, logical sense up until the ending. The Normandy flees Earth for no apparent or justifiable reason, we're told that war between synthetic and organic life is inevitable whether or not we reconciled the geth and quarians, and the "optimal" solution we're handed - magically make everyone in the galaxy into a cyborg - takes a chainsaw to suspension of disbelief both in premise and execution. Remember the crapstorm over midi-chlorians when the prequels first started coming out? That's peanuts compared to this. The idea that Jedi are Force-sensitive because of bacterial symbiotes, however bizarre, at least didn't flagrantly contradict anything from the original trilogy (though it probably killed a small chunk of the Expanded Universe). If you think Midichlorians aren't worse you don't really know anything about Star Wars (or alternatively haven't really considered the implications). They re-contextualise the entire original trilogy. "Use the Force" is not a mystical term but now relates to essentially "Use the space bacteria" the entire good and evil no longer makes any real sense because again, there's no zen anymore and it invalidates pretty much every speech Yoda ever gave about *The Force*. Also Luke is now the chosen one by...space bacteria...what a wonderful heart warming story. It's absolutely no surprise that the term Midichlorian is pretty much buried from that point on. Mass Effect 3 on the other hand The ending changes the Reapers from universal monsters to intergalactic gardeners. Which actually makes more than absolutely no sense...how do you think plants feel about getting pruned all the time?
As for your specific complaints - We're never given any real context of time span between Shepard's entering the Citadel and the Normandy's flight - while not a great reason it's entirely possible that given the apparent failure of the mission the humans had been on the retreat...then suddenly the Citadel starts to EXPLODE INTO MASSIVE ENERGY given that no one knows what's supposed to happening (for all they know, this is a Reaper's kill the entire galaxy bomb) as the only one privy to Shepard's choice is busy exploding or disintegrating or whatever happens in your ending. Running actually makes a great deal of sense.
Additionally keep in mind that whatever beings originally believed that Synthetic rebellion and organic destruction is inevitable are not necessarily perfect themselves. They could be entirely wrong but that's THEIR opinion, clearly you're not supposed to agree because it's REAPER logic. They've seen 100's of cycles go by and they know how it ends. The weapon you have to fight the Reaper's gives you a choice but it's not a magic kill all Reaper's and everyone lives happily ever after deus ex machima and I personally appreciate that they give you a relatively tough choice.
Finally I don't believe everyone becomes Cyborgs - the whole point of the synthesis ending is they become something *else* a form of life that hasn't existed before. While it's perfectly fine to dislike this part of the ending you don't have to choose this ending. Shepard can call off the Reapers with the control choice and leave the universe to its own devices.
Honestly I've thought a little about it and decided that the Reaper's may simply refer to the fact that all organic life will eventually be entirely supplemented by machine. Not necessarily in a violent coup but that since Synthetics are superior in all ways apparently there's a sense of inevitability that all must become machine.
Whether you like the ending or not it's not entirely STUPID KILLED ENTIRE FRANCHISE forever dumb, at least in my opinion. I've also just read that someone has decided to file a complaint with the FTC. This is a real thing that really happened. I really don't know what to say. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 7:51:14 GMT -5
I say "good for him!" ;p. Of course, rampant lawsuits are one of many things grinding my beautiful nation into the dirt.
Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone's done a "We The People" petition on whitehouse.gov...
While I'm randomly thinking of stuff, do a search for "masseffectrule34." I laughed for about five minutes after seeing the picture of "Broshep" doing lines of drugs off an Asari's boobs.
EDIT: Oh yeah, the game. I've been playing a lot of MP, but I'm not very good. Either I dominate or I end up on a team with guys with level 300+ and they either kick me immediately or after one round. I'm getting pissed because I can't get any medigels in my booster packs, and I haven't been able to get a decent sniper rifle like the Widow.
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Post by kyouki on Mar 19, 2012 8:24:35 GMT -5
I read about the FTC complaint and thought that maybe you had spearheaded it, Joseph Joestar.  |
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Post by The Great Klaid on Mar 19, 2012 10:44:01 GMT -5
People will always complain about endings. I've been through Evangelion twice and I hated the ending the first time because I still had questions dammit! The second time I liked it, because it ties up everyone's crazy arcs and they... well I'm still not sure what happened, but it was much more entertaining when I had diefferent expectations and felt it fit more as the psychological narrative the story had become. There are people who get angry about FFVII's ending. And FFVIII's ending. Anything actually that isn't they all lived happy ever after. There were some people in my high school class who would always get mad about any book that had a slightly ambigious ending. No one will ever like an ending that doesn't end like this penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/03/16. |
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Post by Super Orbus on Mar 19, 2012 13:32:04 GMT -5
That's certainly the ending I was expecting.
Bioware should hire Tycho and Gabe.
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Post by TheGunheart on Mar 19, 2012 14:55:28 GMT -5
If you think Midichlorians aren't worse you don't really know anything about Star Wars (or alternatively haven't really considered the implications). They re-contextualise the entire original trilogy. "Use the Force" is not a mystical term but now relates to essentially "Use the space bacteria" the entire good and evil no longer makes any real sense because again, there's no zen anymore and it invalidates pretty much every speech Yoda ever gave about *The Force*. Also Luke is now the chosen one by...space bacteria...what a wonderful heart warming story. It's absolutely no surprise that the term Midichlorian is pretty much buried from that point on. Mass Effect 3 on the other hand The ending changes the Reapers from universal monsters to intergalactic gardeners. Which actually makes more than absolutely no sense...how do you think plants feel about getting pruned all the time?
As for your specific complaints - We're never given any real context of time span between Shepard's entering the Citadel and the Normandy's flight - while not a great reason it's entirely possible that given the apparent failure of the mission the humans had been on the retreat...then suddenly the Citadel starts to EXPLODE INTO MASSIVE ENERGY given that no one knows what's supposed to happening (for all they know, this is a Reaper's kill the entire galaxy bomb) as the only one privy to Shepard's choice is busy exploding or disintegrating or whatever happens in your ending. Running actually makes a great deal of sense.
Additionally keep in mind that whatever beings originally believed that Synthetic rebellion and organic destruction is inevitable are not necessarily perfect themselves. They could be entirely wrong but that's THEIR opinion, clearly you're not supposed to agree because it's REAPER logic. They've seen 100's of cycles go by and they know how it ends. The weapon you have to fight the Reaper's gives you a choice but it's not a magic kill all Reaper's and everyone lives happily ever after deus ex machima and I personally appreciate that they give you a relatively tough choice.
Finally I don't believe everyone becomes Cyborgs - the whole point of the synthesis ending is they become something *else* a form of life that hasn't existed before. While it's perfectly fine to dislike this part of the ending you don't have to choose this ending. Shepard can call off the Reapers with the control choice and leave the universe to its own devices.
Honestly I've thought a little about it and decided that the Reaper's may simply refer to the fact that all organic life will eventually be entirely supplemented by machine. Not necessarily in a violent coup but that since Synthetics are superior in all ways apparently there's a sense of inevitability that all must become machine.
Whether you like the ending or not it's not entirely STUPID KILLED ENTIRE FRANCHISE forever dumb, at least in my opinion. First, as you stated, no one brings up space bacteria anymore. On the other hand, Mass Effect will always end like this. As for the rest... First, that's really not a good enough excuse. For one, characters that apparently died in the rush to the transport thingy show up just fine on the Normandy. For another, the whole scene is just completely arbitrary. It's like they hotglued some leftover sequence from another ending plan without any regard for context, as if trying to squeeze some element of excitement out of the ending without ever figuring out why it's happening.
Second, while the player may not agree with it, the point is that Shepard doesn't even argue. He just goes along with star kid like he's 100% correct. And how exactly does synthetic life and organic life merge in the first place? Does this mean that Joker somehow grew circuit boards under his skin and that creepy EDI-bot now has functioning reproductive organs? How does that work? Where did the additional mass come from? Was it just FMA-style alchemy of changing one type of matter into another type of matter? For a series that's been relatively consistent with its pseudoscience, this space magic comes out of nowhere.
And then there's the whole Control ending, which frankly is a terrible point to end things. I control the Reapers now, so shouldn't I get the choice of what to do with them? We're right at the end here; I'm sure an extra cutscene or two wouldn't have gone overbudget.
I frankly love ambiguous or unhappy endings, but the problem for me is that this isn't one. It's a bargain bin sci-fi "massive galactic choice" that they just sort of assume people will find amazing. Just like the Deus Ex series: all story and characterization go out the window so the player can have a shot at being a meaningless god. |
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