Video games and using guns

[TheChosen]

They say that video games makes people into killing machines. While I admit some frustrating moments can lead up to more agression, I noticed that video games definitely dont teach people how to use a gun.

As you might now, I've been in the army now for 3 weeks. Naturally, this also involved training on how to use a rifle. Everyone got their very own rifle (I named mine Franziska). We've had 3 days at the shooting range and I've learned several things on handling guns.

1. They're actually quite heavy, and holding them for a while requires bit more strenght. My hands are actually quite weak, so Im having even more trouble holding a rifle. I cant even aim straight when standing. Good thing there's the gun-strap, so you can at least let it hang around your neck when you're not using it. In any case, a nerdy cs-fan or kid will have trouble even holding it, unless they love working out their arms.

2. Even with non-moving targets, hitting isnt that easy. Strenght comes into play again as you have to get a good hold of your gun and control your breathing if you wish to aim for that bullseye. And so far, we've only been shooting when lying down. In the army, we dont shoot from the hip and the only crosshair is in your gun.

3. You sometimes have to fiddle with the targeting sight before you can actually hit something. Took me a while to get at least near the center because previous owner set my sight way off.

4. Guns are really damn loud. There's a reason why people use hearing protection in shooting ranges.

5. There's also lot of work into handling your gun. You have to fill the clips by yourself, clean it everytime after the use etcetera etcetera. Also, the clips arent that small, so its difficult to carry around tons of ammo in real-life (We're issued with 3 clips, which can hold 30 bullets each. I have a place in my backpack which holds all 3 clips. I could also shove two clips into my breast-pockets and thats about it.)

In conclusion, video games didnt teach me how to use guns for killing purpose. Army did (what a surprise). None of these factors came up when playing video games (I didnt even fully understand the whole safety-thingie untill I got hold of the gun).

Just thought I'd share this.

[Jave]

This was something I'd wanted to ask you about, actually.

It amuses me that for certain things, some people are completely unwilling to accept even the slightest bit of unrealism, and then for other things, they don't even blink twice.

Anyway, do keep us posted.

[TheGunheart]

You know, it's funny you should mention those first few parts. Something bugged me about how in Crysis, the Strength mode of the suit as absolutely no effect on your ability to aim.

[Snarboo]

Actually, strength mode in Crysis reduces weapon sway when using iron sights and also reduces recoil.

[kitten]

Another thing that people forget when handling a gun is that there actually isn't a heads-up display in real life. This can make it difficult to tell how many grenades you are currently holding, as well as make you confused as to how much ammo you really have. Bullets not fired from the magazine you just ejected no longer teleport into a magical stockpile of full magazines, so reloading every time you fire a shot and find yourself in cover is no longer the best tactic.

Okay, okay, enough teasing. I don't really mean to be all that rude or anything, but I'm pretty surprised you apparently never fired a gun before entering the military (universal conscription or not, that sounds weird to me that you would have never tried one before entering into something where you'd be using one around other people - maybe they have strict gun laws over there, or few ranges?). I thought these kinds of things were well-known. Your naivete developed about how they may actually operate from playing a video game is actually kind of startling, to me.

Quite a few games out there do address some of the things you went over, too. A lot of games use iron-sight aiming with little-to-no crosshairs, these days, and many of them also bring in breath control when aiming down a sniper scope (although they rarely bring it in when firing any gun, largely because it might make the game irritating) and (slightly) realistic recoil. Also, a clip is not a magazine. Common mistake, though.

Anyway, again, sorry if this sounded mean or rude, but I'm just very surprised by some of the conceptions you had about guns prior to actually using one. It really sounds like you had no idea how unrealistic guns in video games actually were, which feels like evidence that video games do actually disillusion people.

[Weasel]

People often criticize Call of Duty's iron sights mode, since it acts pretty much laser-accurate. Yes, aiming down the sight is very tricky, especially if you are not trained in that type of sight. Even holographic sights and scopes are not foolproof; you need to spend time (a LOT of time) getting to know your sights and how they work before you can get to a point where you can sight your target that quickly. "Sleight of Hand" is not real. In real life, "Sleight of Hand" is being able to reload your weapon anywhere close to as fast as they do it in game under normal circumstances. So yes, loading a shotgun will take a long time.

But a lot of times, stuff like this is done purely as artistic liberty - in some cases, a game would be borderline unplayable if you had to deal with some of it, like aiming weapons in Trespasser requires you to actually angle your wrist to line up the sights first, or else you will likely miss your shot. The mod "Firearms" for Half-Life keeps track of individual magazines of ammo, so if you reload mid-clip a lot, you'll end up putting in magazines that have less than maximum ammo loaded in them - you can fix that by pressing the "Merge clips" button, but the process takes a somewhat long time.

My friend Malachai (who I've gone on about at length) really hates games in which the scope view bobs and weaves...at all. Doesn't matter how realistic the movement is, he despises it. He being a gun nut...he should really know better that this is how it's actually supposed to work. The PC game America's Army actually has you listening to your breathing to get an idea of how the aiming drift actually works, and when the best time is to fire. I love details like this. and yet, Malachai still hates them. Dammit, man...

[TheChosen]

Jan 29, 2011 15:04:12 GMT -5 kitten said:

Another thing that people forget when handling a gun is that there actually isn't a heads-up display in real life. This can make it difficult to tell how many grenades you are currently holding, as well as make you confused as to how much ammo you really have. Bullets not fired from the magazine you just ejected no longer teleport into a magical stockpile of full magazines, so reloading every time you fire a shot and find yourself in cover is no longer the best tactic.

Okay, okay, enough teasing. I don't really mean to be all that rude or anything, but I'm pretty surprised you apparently never fired a gun before entering the military (universal conscription or not, that sounds weird to me that you would have never tried one before entering into something where you'd be using one around other people - maybe they have strict gun laws over there, or few ranges?). I thought these kinds of things were well-known. Your naivete developed about how they may actually operate from playing a video game is actually kind of startling, to me.

Quite a few games out there do address some of the things you went over, too. A lot of games use iron-sight aiming with little-to-no crosshairs, these days, and many of them also bring in breath control when aiming down a sniper scope (although they rarely bring it in when firing any gun, largely because it might make the game irritating) and (slightly) realistic recoil. Also, a clip is not a magazine. Common mistake, though.

Anyway, again, sorry if this sounded mean or rude, but I'm just very surprised by some of the conceptions you had about guns prior to actually using one. It really sounds like you had no idea how unrealistic guns in video games actually were, which feels like evidence that video games do actually disillusion people.

Its more like ignorance and lack of interest towards actually learning what a gun is or how they work. To me guns are just things that fire bullets when you pull the trigger. I prefer to see them in entertainment mediums and such rather than in real life. And despite the universal conscription, its not common (at least to my knowledge) for young Finns to learn to shoot or handle guns before the army. Building your strenght is better option.

[A Winner Is You]

re: gun laws in Finland...

I don't have any concrete information, but I've heard from a good friend who now lives in Finland (he met a very nice Finnish lady and ended up following her back home to marry her that gun laws are indeed more stringent than in the US (he's moaned to me about it on more than one occasion). He's an enthusiastic collector and had to jump through several hoops of bureaucratic hell just to get the correct gun permits from the police. Of course, being a foreigner probably didn't help, but from what he's told me, the powers that be in Finland can turn you down for a gun licence for so much as a jaywalking violation on your record.

[caoslayer]

Generally in Europe the only way to get some kind of gun is getting a hunting license,in my country you even need a license for carry a knife.

Back to topic, the US Army place recruitment banners on gaming sites, gamefaqs sometimes even features the whole home page. If the most developed army of the world thinks that gamers make good soldiers I bet they aren't that wrong.

[roushimsx]

Jan 30, 2011 1:50:49 GMT -5 caoslayer said:

Back to topic, the US Army place recruitment banners on gaming sites, gamefaqs sometimes even features the whole home page. If the most developed army of the world thinks that gamers make good soldiers I bet they aren't that wrong.

I can see where they'd want to try to pick people up that:

a) Have idealistic views of military service largely in part because of the games that they played. Not much different than the pro-war movies of WWII. Heck, the US Army even has their own free game out there (...which is AWESOME...) funded out of the recruiting budget and with the intention of getting people into the recruiters' offices.

b) Havae developed teamwork concepts, trained reaction times, and capable of making quick decisions. The sports players aren't the only ones in demand these days, baby!

c) Are knowledgeable about technology. We're livin' in the future!

Going after the gamers gives them a fairly large pool of potentially qualified people. If they can get them in a pair of boots then generally basic will take care of putting them on the track to getting into the physical condition they need to be in.

A fellow gamer buddy of mine wound up joining the Marines out of high school and he's fucking jacked now. Still plays games, he just has massive arms to elbow me with when we get a little too into our Super Dodgeball matches.

[hidetoshidecide]

Jan 29, 2011 16:03:13 GMT -5 TheChosen said:

[And despite the universal conscription, its not common (at least to my knowledge) for young Finns to learn to shoot or handle guns before the army. Building your strenght is better option.

It's still quite common in many parts of the US for people to own guns. I don't own any guns now, but I grew up around them and I know how to shoot the basic stuff- rifles, pistols, shotguns.

[nintendolegend]

I have always been of the opinion that most people have the chicken-egg conundrum of video game violence backwards – rather than violent video games causing people to be violent, it is typically the people who already had a predisposition towards violence that would have been attracted to or purchased those games to begin with. Elements like parenting, peer relationships, and other factors will have much more of a direct causal effect.

… this had something to do with gun use in video games, I promise.

[jorpho]

And don't forget: guns are heavy things that do not make snicker-snack noises when you point them at whatever. Or so I hear.

[America Young Fusion]

I wanted to be a dick and get myself banned again saying: "Man look at all this diarrhea of the mouth for beating on a dead horse. Don't any of you got anything better to do with your lives?" but my usual fascination of seemingly decent people joining the armed forces has gotten the better of me so...TheChosen, why did you join the army??

I once read The Blackwater book and I'm getting into this other one about The Authorized History of the MI5 and after I'm done reading through shit like that I always feel like joining in on something like that.

[kitten]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Finland