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Post by jameseightbitstar on May 30, 2006 8:53:50 GMT -5
Hey Kurt, this is for your "cranky gamers" section, though it isn't quite so cranky, but it came to mind because Metroid Prime was brought up in another topic. So I figured, I'd detail why I didn't like it.
First a little backstory: I got Metroid Prime as my Gamecube's pack-in game during that special deal they had where you could get a 'Cube with Prime and the MP2 bonus disc. Now, at first I really enjoyed it. I was like "Wow, the reviews were right, this really is like an old-school game." I was impressed with it.
Up until I got to the wrecked ship. Now, before then, the game was very old-school: clever enemy placement with lots of enemies of various types. But after the wrecked ship, it seemed like every room you entered either had three jetpack-clad space pirates, or three Chozo Ghosts (who were almost the same, basically), with little to no variety, and even previous areas had their unique enemies replaced with these endlessly-recycled ones. Now I don't know about you guys but I do not enjoy fighting the same three enemies in every frixing room!
Another thing I did not really like, was having to search for Chozo Artifacts. I'm sorry, but this was nothing more than a lame attempt to pad out the length of the game by forcing the player to undertake a tedious and arbitrary quest, made even worse because often you have no reason to re-explore previous areas except to find these silly artifacts. Why can't the final area be unlocked simply by killing all the bosses a la Metroid and Super Metroid, which would actually make sense and not be arbitrary?
Third thing I didn't like was that the designers took on a Legend of Zelda mindset with regard to the bosses, by which I mean all the bosses have these patterns of "they do something, weakness is exposed long enough for you to exploit it, then lather rinse repeat until you win." Pretty much, I consider this lazy design (and its one of the reasons I began to hate the Zelda games, but I digress) and not only that, but it goes against the previous Metroids, in which the fights were mostly all-out brawls--whenever an enemy had a weakness, you usually didn't have to wait for it to be exposed nor did you have to use some "lather rinse repeat" strategy on them.
Fourth problem, and this admittedly is a minor one, is I didn't care for some of the plot directions this one took, basically that it's supposed to take place between Metroid I and II (which in my mind rather tests credibility, but its feasible) and, moreover, that Samus has some personal connection to the Chozo.
Finally, there is no freaking way I'm going to go around scanning everything in sight just to get the best ending. Whoever thought of that needs to be slapped. The "ending is determined by speed" method was much better (as it was, I got the second-best ending).
That's pretty much it for what I didn't like about the game.
To be fair, I did find some redeeming qualities. I loved the morph ball segments, the various goggles, using the grapple beam (I only wish its use wasn't so limited), and I personally had no issues whatsoever with the controls--in fact I wish more console-based first-person games controlled like Metroid Prime!
I played the demo of Metroid Prime 2, and personally I'm not interested in that, as it seems like its going to be more of the same, just with some new features (which I'm guessing I won't like).
Anyway, that's my bit. I think that was 1,500 words, but I'm not a stickler for word count either ^^.
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Post by Neo Rasa on May 30, 2006 9:54:40 GMT -5
I love Metroid Prime 2 quite a bit, but I wouldn't bother if I were you since it doesn't change any of the things you don't seem to have liked about the first one. Definitely obtain the soundtrack though like with all the Metroid games. The padded out key hunt is a bit cooler in Metroid Prime 2 though. The items make much more sense and are more directly connnected to the storyline. There's also many more key items to find, but they're in areas that have other items/reasons to explore anyway, and for several you have to do cool stuff with the visors to locate them. The morph ball segments are also freaking amazing in this game (there's actually an entire boss fight you do from the sideview morph ball perspective!) instead of just very good like in Prime.
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Post by Malroth on May 30, 2006 14:36:40 GMT -5
From what I played of Prime 2, it was essentially a harder version of the other one. What I really didn't like was the dreary landscapes. The first Prime's areas were beautiful and fun to explore, but Prime 2's was horribly ugly and that damn mist prevented you from doing any real exploration early on.
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Post by Discoalucard on May 30, 2006 15:24:41 GMT -5
You don't need to get 100% on scans to get the best ending, actually, just 100% items. The scans will open up the bonus galleries. But if you really need to get everything unlocked, yeah, you gotta scan everything.
I think it's a bit too short and underdeveloped to fit in, but if you can stretch it out, I think it'd work. Remember, be angry, and above all, try to be funny about it. Those are definitely some flaws with Metroid Prime, although none of them really bugged me to any great extent.
Have you played Wind Waker? Because the "search for lots of pointless stuff at the end of the game" seems to be an ongoing thing for Nintendo. As you mentioned, they seem to have brought Metroid and Zelda closer together.
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Post by Neo Rasa on May 30, 2006 15:42:03 GMT -5
I didn't find the Wind Waker one to be all that bad, I mean you can teleport to wherever you want and you have maps that tell you exactly where everything is anyway.
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Post by Discoalucard on May 30, 2006 15:46:51 GMT -5
It was more the "gather a whole ton of money" in order to decipher the maps that annoyed me in Wind Waker. It might not take THAT long in the grand scheme of things but it aggravated me out of principle, which was where I stopped playing. I can understand the logic behind these quests - they wanted you to REALLY become aquainted with the world, plus pad out the game time, and maybe use your new abilities to open up stuff you missed before.
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Post by MRSKELETON on May 30, 2006 16:04:19 GMT -5
Third thing I didn't like was that the designers took on a Legend of Zelda mindset with regard to the bosses, by which I mean all the bosses have these patterns of "they do something, weakness is exposed long enough for you to exploit it, then lather rinse repeat until you win." Pretty much, I consider this lazy design (and its one of the reasons I began to hate the Zelda games, but I digress) and not only that, but it goes against the previous Metroids, in which the fights were mostly all-out brawls--whenever an enemy had a weakness, you usually didn't have to wait for it to be exposed nor did you have to use some "lather rinse repeat" strategy on them.
So, The fight against Kraid doesn't count apparently? Whatabout ridley? The X Virus things in fusion always had a weakness to exploit
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Post by Malroth on May 30, 2006 16:56:32 GMT -5
Actually, what bugged me most about Wind Waker was the Triforce segment. That was the perfect oppertunity to add more dungeons, but no. Time to go fishing.
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Post by jameseightbitstar on May 30, 2006 17:53:33 GMT -5
So, The fight against Kraid doesn't count apparently? Whatabout ridley? The X Virus things in fusion always had a weakness to exploit Of Metroid bosses, Kraid, Spore Spawn, and Crocomire (all SM) and the Metroid Queen (M2) are the only ones I can think of where you needed to wait for a weakness to be exposed. Even then though, those fights were still more like all-out brawls than the lather-rinse patterns of Prime. And what about Ridley? He's NEVER had a "weakness" pattern until Metroid Prime.
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Kishi
New Member
Avenger
Posts: 25
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Post by Kishi on May 30, 2006 19:22:37 GMT -5
Did Ridley really have a pattern in Prime? I'm pretty sure I've beaten him numerous times by just shooting constantly.
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Post by MRSKELETON on May 30, 2006 20:23:00 GMT -5
That's because it's 3d. If you we're fighting another person, Sure but on metroid you aren't. You can't just make it a straight brawl fest.
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Post by ReyVGM on May 30, 2006 20:50:24 GMT -5
Wind Waker would have been a lot more enjoyable if the boat had some sort of engine or motor that didn't require you to stop and change the wind all the time. Sure, maybe you could rely on the wind at first, but after that you should have gotten some sort of speed boost that allowed you to travel anywhere without worrying about the wind direction.
Thank god they fixed that for the DS Zelda, this time the boat is powered by steam.
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Post by Neo Rasa on May 30, 2006 21:11:45 GMT -5
Did Ridley really have a pattern in Prime? I'm pretty sure I've beaten him numerous times by just shooting constantly. You're correct, he doesn't have much of a pattern at all once he's on the ground. Though he does have a weakpoint that's more exposed when he rears up to charge at you.
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Post by jameseightbitstar on May 31, 2006 17:46:09 GMT -5
So... basically, my article needs:
More anger. More humor.
God, I'm gonna have to play the game again.
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Post by klatrymadon on Jun 2, 2006 10:41:14 GMT -5
My biggest problem with Prime, as someone who has followed the series almost since its inception, is that its art direction is very higgledy-piggledy for a Metroid game. The areas are often Earthlike and familiar (Phendrana and Magmoor are big culprits here - generic fire and ice worlds), and the music - while of a very high quality in general - is often wholly inappropriate and inadequate in conveying the kind of atmospheres we've grown to expect from the series. Where is the emphasis on oppressive, subterranean, biological environments? Where is the appropriately haunting, avant-garde soundtrack to complement these environments, that never draws attention to itself but still has you listening to it every single day? Does a cheery whistle-based piece of music in any way enhance the experience of exploring a dilapidated ancient temple? Why are there crates all over the place? These belong in lesser games with less grandiose ideas. Where is Samus' agility and speed? She feels like she's wearing one of those old diving suits. Where are the combinable weapons and balanced upgrades that give you the now-traditional feeling of being more powerful than any of your enemies, and of being able to bolt through any previous area unharmed? Combat-oriented difficulty isn't really what Metroid's about. I could waffle all day about that stuff, though. The Primes are undoubtedly some of the best games of this generation, but I'll never be able to fathom why they deviated so much from Super Metroid's example... If there's one thing I appreciate about Super Metroid all the more in the modern context (disregarding the phenomal, matchless strength of its atmosphere, music, gameplay and art direction for a moment), it's the unobtrusive and benign methods it uses to stir emotion in the player. No clunky dialogue, no cutscenes; the cutscenes liberally tossed around in the Primes frankly insult our intelligence. "Look, some nasties jumping out from behind some crates! We thought you might shit your pants if it happened right in front of you, so we've de-fanged the viper by allowing you pre-empt the whole situation with a nice pulled-back wide-shot." The beauty of Super Metroid's narrative is that it's all told through visual cues and in-game setpieces that don't take Samus out of your control at all. A common suggestion is that this has more to do with technical limitations (i.e.: not being able to use cutscenes) than artistic choice, but I find this view flippant and, again, insulting. Certainly, it may have been handled differently if SM were made in 2004, but that's surely more a sign of our rubbish times than of any outmoding of SM's presentation...? Indeed, as pretentious as it may sound, Super Metroid has such strong, emotive and self-contained art direction that it doesn't need any obtuse dialogue to get across its story and its profound, underlying maternal themes. I really wish the guys at Retro would go and play the Half-Life games, as those games more or less took the baton and ran with it in terms of using clever, unintrusive setpieces. Also, absolutely everything in Super Metroid is, undeniably, as it was intended. You may have your own niggles with it, but they're never mistakes or examples of laziness. Its controls are more fluent and intuitive than anything you're likely to pick up this year, its rooms are all meticulously designed and interlinked, its musical score is at once so fitting and transcendental it makes me think its full splendour is beyond the ken of men... I could go on forever. There's just a simple truth about this game and an astonishingly admirable work ethic behind it all. It's very typical of me that my post is more a criticism of modern games in general (and a lauding of Super Met) than a look at Prime's shortcomings, but SM is completely free of any of those little cynicisms, intelligence-insulters, hackneyed "seen it all before" puzzles or setpieces, or unimaginative gameplay-undermining inventory screens that plague so much of what's on offer today. In this sense, anyone who overlooks it because it appears 'old' really doesn't know what they're missing. It's still one of the most forward-thinking games around. The fact that it takes time out of its schedule to delight you with so many 'little touches' (bugs on the walls that scatter as you draw near, the dead fellow at Kraid's lair, the orange Geemer, etc) further puts a lot of modern, bare-bones, "let's just get it shipped out" games to shame. The only recent title I can think of that exhibits a similar completeness of vision is Shadow of the Colossus, and while the two games have little in common, I think this shows the extent to which Super Metroid was ahead of its time. It feels more like a modern, intelligent, relevant work of art than absolutely everything on store shelves today, 12 years later.
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