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Post by Vendaval Este on Mar 28, 2011 2:17:05 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been discussed but it's been quite some time since I last posted in this place.
I read recently that DNF has come underfire for its "Capture the Babe" mode, in which you have to slap women to calm them down. Being a feminist, this is the second thing to offend me about DNF initially after seeing the cover art. Yes, I know Duke Nukem's somewhat playful sexism is tongue-in-cheek, and the series has thankfully been free of sandwhich jokes and "women suck" content, but this seems to go a bit far. What worries me, are the amount of frat boys that will be playing the game, giggling and cracking "yeah, back in the kitchen bitch" jokes among Chuck Norris ones probably. I think comparisons to videogames being about killing will be brought into the overall argument by some people (not saying that will exclusively happen here), but put it this way, if the mode was racist instead of sexist, it wouldn't exist at all, so I wonder why it does when it's just as offensive.
I don't think beating on female characters in fighting games can really be compared, as everyone gets the same treatment in those games. I wonder if the recent controversey with rape games can be brought into this argument as well.
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Post by Bobinator on Mar 28, 2011 5:19:49 GMT -5
To be fair, from what I've heard, it's more of a playful slap on the girl's butt, not Duke actually smacking her in the face. I know that probably doesn't help that sound any better at all, but still.
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Post by roushimsx on Mar 28, 2011 5:45:14 GMT -5
I read recently that DNF has come underfire for its "Capture the Babe" mode, in which you have to slap women to calm them down. Sounds like someone's been reading FOX News. |
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Post by derboo on Mar 28, 2011 6:22:51 GMT -5
Wasn't the butt slap move in God Hand limited to female enemies? Never heard anyone bitching about that one...
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Post by kitten on Mar 28, 2011 6:46:53 GMT -5
What worries me, are the amount of frat boys that will be playing the game, giggling and cracking "yeah, back in the kitchen bitch" jokes Why would this worry you? Idiots are going to be idiots. It's like people making sexist jokes when they teabag somebody in Halo, but it's no reason to consider removing the crouch feature. I realize that crouching has no inherent sexism like slapping a woman's body may, but getting worried about the extraneous comments it might generate is just as ridiculous in both cases. The slap has been reported as a joke slap on the girl's rear. I don't really see anything to get alarmed about, here, and I'm generally the first one to get upset about sexism. It's tongue-in-cheek and ridiculous. Moreso, it's not derogatory toward the entire gender and rather just the specific floozy, which Duke has always been full of. It's definitely worth rolling your eyes over, but it's not sexism bad enough to bother getting pissed about, especially when everybody knows it's a joke. The types of sexism that really piss me off are the types that are outright hurtful, the types that are hard to detect because of how our society is structured (and therefore perpetuate sexism, as it feels harmless to reproduce it), and the types that are both. This doesn't fall anywhere in there. If you want to fight against sexism that's actually harmful like those types are, take your fight against crap like Grand Theft Auto. On another note, one that I'm tempted to make an entirely separate thread over, I think some games do help promote equality among sexes (and different sexualities) while not having to rid themselves of any sexual content. Fable III's a great example (II is as well, as is the first game if I remember correctly), and even though a lot of people may believe it's a disappointing, shitty game (I'll admit I loved it), I really think other games should take note and follow the example with its treatment of sexuality. Both men and women in that game are equally poked fun at and celebrated, and gays, bis and lesbians fit entirely into the norm without patronizing them with the drama of a gay character struggling in a straight world. This is a poster you'll regularly see in Fable III's loading screen -  In Albion's fantasy world, neither sex is made out to be any less than the other, and a poster like this would be just as acceptable with the genders of the two characters reversed as it would as it is. This character is likely carrying her man just like Duke is going to be carrying some floozy, and I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up slapping him on the bottom to calm down. Duke lives in a moderately offensive world where playful sexism only goes one way (even still, that's arguable, as Duke is a parody of extreme masculinity and a character that is portrayed in a playfully sexist way, himself), but I think the fact a poster like the one above could be perfectly acceptable to us in one fantasy world is a good indicator that Duke's sexism is still, at its heart, silly fun. Anyway, my point is that I think this ordeal is blown way out of proportion, and that Duke is definitely within acceptable parameters of silliness. |
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Post by kal on Mar 28, 2011 7:30:14 GMT -5
I can understand if someone makes an argument towards Duke Nukem trivialising issues like gender equality if he's generally accepted as a reasonable parody of masculine ultra 80 heroes. But if someone legitimately believes that Duke's behaviour is acceptable outside of a fictional environment well then their state of attachment to reality is a more serious concern.
Taken out of context the action may well prove offensive...but in the world Duke exists in? Hardly.
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Post by retr0gamer on Mar 28, 2011 9:15:45 GMT -5
I think the only person that can answer whether they find it offensive would be a female. I told my girlfriend about this and she thought it was hilarious and now wants me to buy it so she can play it.
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Post by justjustin on Mar 28, 2011 9:22:43 GMT -5
I think Kitten nailed it. The butt slapping in Duke Nukem is hardly worth examining compared to more harmful types of sexism. The guys who make jokes slandering women aren't the type to be any less convinced that men are superior to women (unless they give it serious thought over a long period of time), and even if the slapping somehow reinforced that idea for them it's no big deal. They're probably too stupid to understand any other point of view anyway. Smarter people won't be convinced.
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Post by justjustin on Mar 28, 2011 9:31:57 GMT -5
Whoops, I meant to edit this into the previous post. Anyway... I think the only person that can answer whether they find it offensive would be a female. lol. Nothing against you, but reading this made me laugh. Do women have some special knowledge about sexism that men just can't understand? I think anyone can say whether something seems sexist and feel offended by it. I don't think women necessarily know best about the subject, because the male/female division is completely fictional and I think more people than just women are involved in perpetuating the viewpoint. |
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Post by vetus on Mar 28, 2011 9:55:34 GMT -5
Meanwhile on Call of Duty 4 ;D : Wasn't the butt slap move in God Hand limited to female enemies? Never heard anyone bitching about that one... That's because it wasn't famous enough to get the attention from media. Just like gore fightings before Mortal Kompat who only hardcore gamers would know about. That reminds me the media's overreactions about Pokemon first generation's "scandalous" material like the casino, Jynx and so on. Now you won't hear media bitching about Pokemon's "bad influence" even the fans have spotted lots of innuendos (I have spotted some of them myself as well).  |
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Post by retr0gamer on Mar 28, 2011 9:59:48 GMT -5
lol. Nothing against you, but reading this made me laugh. Do women have some special knowledge about sexism that men just can't understand? I think anyone can say whether something seems sexist and feel offended by it. I don't think women necessarily know best about the subject, because the male/female division is completely fictional and I think more people than just women are involved in perpetuating the viewpoint. Well I was just trying to be humours but I was surprised at my girlfriends reaction to it when I told her about it  |
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Post by justjustin on Mar 28, 2011 10:13:21 GMT -5
Surprised because she's a woman and not supposed to condone Duke's butt slapping?!?!... Nah, I'm just kidding. It's good she has a sense of humor about it.
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Post by kitten on Mar 28, 2011 10:13:56 GMT -5
Meanwhile on Call of Duty 4 ;D The first one of those videos was on Halo 3. If I remember correctly, they were playing on The Pit (which is one of Halo 3's very few okay maps), and I made a joke about how that's a 4v4 map on a YouTube comment when there were 9 boxes with people in them at the end (however, what I failed to notice was that one girl was in two boxes just to fill in the screen!). Agh, man. I'm a dork  |
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Post by retr0gamer on Mar 28, 2011 13:04:14 GMT -5
Dork is acceptible. Halo dork should be socially outcast.
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Post by TheGunheart on Mar 28, 2011 13:49:16 GMT -5
That reminds me the media's overreactions about Pokemon first generation's "scandalous" material like the casino, Jynx and so on. Now you won't hear media bitching about Pokemon's "bad influence" even the fans have spotted lots of innuendos (I have spotted some of them myself as well). I'm still dissapointed that no religious group raised a fuss over the introduction of Arceus. All those crazies claiming Pikachu meant "stronger than god", and when they introduce a 'mon that is, essentially, god, there's not so much as a peep out of 'em. It would've been hilarious. And yeah, Duke Nukem is far too tongue-in-cheek to really take this sort of thing seriously. |
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